The mentality of picking Cupp & Kite for Liberty National

[Kyle Harris]

5200 Irrigation Heads!!!!!!!!!

[Joel_Stewart]

I suspect that the development will succeed but only time will tell.

I'll bump this thread.  Has the development worked?

[Martin Del Vecchio]

From Frank Hannigan's letter to Geoff Shackelford (http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2009/8/25/letter-from-saugerties-jimmy-cannon-edition.html):

In the early 1990s I was a consultant (unpaid) for a golf course project at Liberty State Park - the site of this week's Tour event. It required the blessing of then New Jersey Governor Christie Whitman, herself an enthusiastic golfer.

She wouldn't help us because the mayor of Jersey City said that golf was inherently elitist and that none of his city's precious land should be wasted on the rich. Never mind that the land in question was poisonously polluted. My idea was for a daily fee course supplemented by renting the course out once day a week for huge fees from Wall Street firms who would arrive by boat. What's happened is the creation of a $500,000 private club that is out of the reach of anybody who isn't loaded.

[Jason McNamara]

From Frank Hannigan's letter to Geoff Shackelford

She [Whitman] wouldn't help us because the mayor of Jersey City said that golf was inherently elitist and that none of his city's precious land should be wasted on the rich. Never mind that the land in question was poisonously polluted. My idea was for a daily fee course supplemented by renting the course out once day a week for huge fees from Wall Street firms who would arrive by boat. What's happened is the creation of a $500,000 private club that is out of the reach of anybody who isn't loaded.

So instead of subsidizing a muni*, the state got someone else to do all the work, pay for the remediation, and if my guess about NJ is correct, they're grabbing a decent chunk of sales tax on every membership.

(Plus they're assessing property taxes on a $60MM clubhouse.)

* a daily fee course never could have made up the remediation fees, could it?

[Voytek Wilczak]

The golf course that had once been proposed (and defeated) for Liberty State Park was to be on public land (Liberty Sate Park).

Liberty National is on private land, adjacent to Liberty Sate Park.

Two totally different animals.

[Joel_Stewart]

The course looks vastly improved.


Did the architects waive their fees to completely rebuild it?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Voytek, you claim that "1. The range has a tremendous view of Verrazano and Statue of Liberty."

The range might have a view of the SoL, the Verrazano is at best a stretch from there, but the real issue isn't "the range," it's the golfer standing on it using it and playing shots. The main range tee is angled SSW, away from the good views and towards the highway and all of those little trees that might some day block the view of the roadway. The teaching tee at the far end affords a much better view, though that, too, will change when the real estate and buildings go up.

Not sure if it was mentioned in this thread, but the situation with the range may be that if it was facing east, you're hitting in the morning sun?

[Ken Moum]

[
The mindboggling views will make it very attractive to TV advertisers and the PGA Tour.

A perfect spot for the Ryder Cup, too, with the constant Statue and Ellis Island views becoming the 15th club for the Americans... and the fodder for the talking heads.

Hmm.... Good call.


It's interesting how many times they're managing to get the Statue of Liberty into the views this morning.

[Steve Lapper]

The course looks vastly improved.


Did the architects waive their fees to completely rebuild it?

Is it improved?? Perhaps by some measures for sure.


It's certainly changed from it's debut, and the routing used for the President's Cup is visually more impressive, however it still strongly retains it's original disappointing design and destination: "A Florida course, only sans the palm trees!"


The gushing of the paid "talking heads" is so patently pandering and mistaken it makes me want to puke.


I suspect Tom Kite waived his fees if only to avoid the architectural malpractice case!

[Terry Lavin]

The course is just as compelling as the event, which will only get worse when the Twitterer-in-chief makes his appearance.