Pebble Beach vs. Pacific Dunes

[THuckaby2]

Rich:

You had me there for a second till I noticed the date.

Well done, my friend.  This round goes to you and the next round of drinks is on me.  I confess to actually searching and checking this out!

Very, very well done.  I shoulda known not to mess with the master!  

TH

[Dan Kelly]

I particularly liked the intentionally misused "You're" at the start

Dave --

The misused "You're" is a Goodale trademark. (I'm working with him on it, but progress is slow.)

I quote, by way of example, Prof. Goodale's enormously insightful comment to me, on my "You may change one Rule of Golf..." thread: "you're initial idea is a real home run." (Well, yes and no. Its [sic] a home run, alright [sic] -- but its [sic] not mi'ne, its [sic] mine.)

We have a guy here at the paper who, if he means "its," writes "it's" (Tom I has this problem, too) -- and if he means "it's," he writes "its." Makes him easy to copy-edit -- because he ALWAYS gets it wrong! Just do a couple of universal search-and-replaces, and everythings [sic] just as its [sic] supposed to be!

Now, if, indeed, one is indeed attempting to parody Mr. Huckaby, and if one is indeed not sly enough to say something like "Not only that, but if we ever play NGLA together, no matter how much I think it bites the big one, I'm gonna rave about it interminably," one must "indeed" up a storm ... and maybe throw in some possibly apropos allusion to Shakespeare. Indeed! (Tom IV may say that he has lately toned down his indeeding -- and to that I would say: Indeed, he has! After all: Wisdom and goodness to the vile seem vile; / Filths savor but themselves. ["King Lear," Act IV, Scene II])

[THuckaby2]

I cop to this and Dan K. does indeed have me pegged. But no harm done, after all, "There is nothing either good or bad, But thinking makes it so."
--Hamlet, II:2

I also would never have used the word "bitchin' " though I do admire it and wish I would.  

Still it was one hell of an effort by Mr. Goodale, and you too Mr. Kelly!

TH

[Doug Wright]

TH,

Rihc is well known for his propensity to glom onto any decent idea (and even some indecent ones   ) and make them his. He recently attempted to claim co-ownership and co-inventorship of the term "Golfapalooza" tm. I quickly disabused him of that notion, and offered to license said term to him for a reasonable royalty.

All The Best,

[THuckaby2]

Didn't Rich also invent the internet?  

Thanks, Doug.

TH

[ERich]

No Silly,

That fat, balding, politician with crooked teeth invented the internet.  You remember, the moron that couldn't win his home state for President.  The one I thank God is not in the Oval Office right now.  

[THuckaby2]

Erich:

Mine was intended as a jibe at my friend Rich, one that I thought he'd like.  Beyond that, I've found it's best to leave politics out of this discussion group, though I suppose I unwittingly brought this on myself.  In any case you never know who might just prefer the fat, balding, internet inventor to the current incumbent.  Believe me, there are many.  

Just a friendly thought.

TH

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tim Weiman,

It's not just the aesthetic appeal of the ocean holes at Pebble, those holes also happen to be world class holes.

Old head doesn't have those world class golf holes that make less than world class golf holes seem inferior, so at Pebble Beach, it's the combination of their location on the Pacific, and their architectual greatness than cast their off ocean step-sisters into the shadows.

I've heard golfers comment that they are not overly impressed with some holes at NGLA, # 's 5, 9, 13 and 16 amongst them.  The same at PV, #'s 10, 11, and 12.

Great holes always overshadow good holes and good holes always overshadow fair holes.  And when the great holes also benefit from having a unique, an incredibly special setting, it only casts bigger and darker shadows over the less special holes.

Call me crazy, but I think #'s 2,3.4, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17 are all pretty good golf holes, especially their diversity and the way they fit in with the rest of the golf course.

And, the course continues to provide a superior test of golf.
Something other courses fail at.

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

Doug

ERich is right.  Algore invented the interent.  I merely perfected it.

Please keep those Golfapalooza(tm) royalty checks coming.

Rich

[TEPaul]

88 posts on this thread and I'm just getting to it!

I think Pebble is a great course, some breathtaking holes and some that are awesome to play, a long interesting tournament history etc--otherworldly looking setting!

But today I'll take Pacific Dunes because it's such a significant departure in modern American architeture! It's so natural looking in almost everyway, hard to see where architecture and the natural site stop and start. It plays well, is very wind related and variable and the holes look and are different and variable too, in so many ways. I don't even think it's that necessary to analyze every hole and shot on PD because of all that (although I really would extend #13 green about 20+ yds in the back--it would be AWESOME that way!).

I look at both Pacific Dunes and Sand Hills as really significant and important courses in modern American architecture--real departures from what came before them in their era, and maybe somewhat of a new direction in the states!

And because it's also West Coast and very different but extremely interesting as a departure in the modern era, I think I'll add Rustic Canyon too!

[THuckaby2]

TEP:  if the measuring stick here is departure from American architecture and "worth" to the world of golf long-term, then yes, it's hard to argue against Pacific Dunes... but I'd take Rustic Canyon over that!  Low cost golf with green approaches like that... Rustic is a gift to California golf without a doubt.  Pacific Dunes is also a gift, just not at the low cost!  In any case each of these, together with Sand Hills and several others, will hopefully some day be held up as examples of the turning point in American architecture, and we should be thankful for them indeed.

I don't think any of this is what Erich's asking, though... his is a simple which is the better golf course.

But this is a way to take the question, fair enough.  Thanks for the twist!

TH