[Noel Freeman]

It is funny that two of my all time favorite golf courses have out an in routings with a loop at the end.  Obviously I am talking about Deal and St. Andrews.  For the locals down in Kent who get to play Sandwich, Rye, Littlestone and Deal, the criticism I often hear about my beloved Cinque Ports is about the routing.  Out and back is simple, it is mundane, you get parallel holes etc, the wind direction is basically the same (it isnt, there are various different tacks to the wind, often subtle b/c the holes don't go out exactly at the same longitude)

Meanwhile, cheek by jowl from Deal is Sandwich which has an almost circular like routing, akin to Muirfield or Shinnecock.  Here you face a different wind, a different test and some may feel a superior challenge.  I can't disagree with this.  But to me something about the ol' out and in is endearing.  Perhaps it the becalming feeling of knowing what lies ahead and being able to mark the journey a bit easier..

So for me I can't say I'd always favor a circular routing vs. out and in but I'm curious to see if anyone else has thought about this..

[TEPaul]

Some of the out and in routings like NGLA or even Kittansett that are basically mostly two holes wide don't seem like it to me because they bend here and there both out and in.

[Tony_Muldoon]

NAF can't see it working unless the site is exposed to wind.  I've now played Deal twice and both times the direction was approx 180 degrees to the famed 'prevailing wind'.  Even though it may be months hence, I am filled with aprehension about playing the final holes into the wind.  When I turn up and if once agian it's not coming from the south west, my head will be completely F***** before I even start.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Noel,
Certainly if you have different characteristics and strategies, it can work and does.

It works for the Old Course doesn't it? Well at least to a great extent, but that is ultimately the charm of the Links.

[James Bennett]

A variation on the out and back theme, using four courses all on the east coast.

St Andrews Old Course - out and back, counter clockwise.  OOB is always on the right (except #9 and 10.  I discovered the troubles left on #9 myself).  The reverse course was clockwise.

Royal Dornoch - out and back clockwose, OOB is left.

Deal (Royal Cinque Ports) - as per the Old course, with OOB on the left.  A slight variant, with the first two holes not playing 'away' from the clubhouse in the same direction as the front nine.

And the winner (in my book) North Berwick.  Out and back.  OOB on the right for the first and last three holes, then a cross-over results in OOB on the left for the middle 12 holes (4 thru 15).  Sheer brilliance.

James B

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

I had never really thought much more than "out and back" about North Berwick until I climbed the Law with my son last month and was intrigued by what you could and couldn't see from up there.  The routing takes a sharp left turn after #1, then curves around the bay for #2 and 3, takes a sharp left again for #4, then curves around the bay again out to the end [with a sharp right at #9].  So you do hit the wind at a lot of different angles along the way.

Dornoch, of course, provides its variety by using the bluff in different ways on the outward holes.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

On a lot of MacKenzie's courses, he sure did seem to get this meadowy-like thing going on between three or four of the holes, where they actually share these meadows. Of course, the holes get routed in a myriad of directions and where the holes either shared fairways or were extra wide.

Point in example: Valley Club.

To me that is ultra-cool.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

It certainly does break up the monotony of containment mounds!

[James Edwards]

NAF,

When Nicklaus says that the back nine at Deal into the wind is the toughest test of golf in the world that he has ever experienced (forgive me for not being able to back this quote up, but you will have to trust that he has said this) then you know that whether it plays circular or up and down, the best player ever to have lived IMHO, feels its a strong golf course.

I love Deal, I love St Georges, both very much have there place in he upper echelons of world architecture.

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