East Lake and Par-3 Finishing holes. . .

« **on:** October 31, 2002, 11:28:31 AM »

Hey guys, with the Tour Championship in my town, I wanted to pose the question about par-3 finishing holes in relation to quality of course/quality of competition.

I personally think 18 at ELGC is enjoyable for the tournament. Think about the possibility of having to nail a long iron/fairway wood on the final hole of a close tournament. Hal Sutton hit a 4-wood in 98, Bubba hit (I believe) a 4-iron at the US Am last year, even I hit a pulled/smothered 3-iron from the normal tees!!!

Some of my favorite courses end in Par-3s (eg, Pasatiempo, Congressional Blue). I know that the debate was made in a thread a while back that maybe MacKenzie didn't know how to finish Pasa, and I am sure that the subject was raised earlier about par-3s, but I couldn't find any.

So, any thoughts are welcome on the subject, and are there some other great quality courses that have a final par-3 hole??

P.S. My early guess is that guys this week will be hitting 3-4-5 irons on the 235-yard hole!!

« **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2002, 11:49:52 AM »

The 18th hole at Brora is a pretty tough par-3. It is 180-200 yards, slightly uphill and flanked by two of the deepest bunkers you have seen.
Personally, finishing a round with a par-3 just does not seem right to me.

« **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2002, 12:22:34 PM »

I have no problem with a course finishing with a par 3. As you mentioned above #18 Congressional Blue finishes with a par 3, it can be a very difficult hole to finish off a good round.

Garden City Golf Club also finishes with a great par 3(An Eden Hole). Given its cozy setting near the clubhouse and with the practice putting green attached, it a is wonderful closing hole(About 190-200-back tees) with a very difficult green and some very imposing bunkers. One of the tougher pars on the course.

« **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2002, 12:45:58 PM »

Cascades ends in a 200 yarder over a pond with a back to front slope. Fits in well with the balance and variety of the entire 18 holes.

« **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:11:19 PM »

A couple others worthy to mention:

The 218-yard closer on White Beeches in Haworth, NJ is a very demanding hole indeed. The green is quite narrow and the green has a slight rise to a narrow shelf in the very back of the target. You can miss shirt and still negotiate a par -- miss too far right or left and all bets are off.

I have to steal a bit of Pat Mucci's thunder, but his home course, Preakness Hills (Wayne, NJ), also closes with a neat par-3 of roughly 140 yards over a pond to a two-tiered green that is encircled by sand in a "C" formation. What's really amazing is that the club's dining room is right behind the hole and there's been a few shots over the years that have air-mailed the intended target.

You also have a par-3 closer with Sandpiper in Goleta, CA that's a fair hole.

The last one to mention is one of personal favorites --
The 18th at Desert Mountain's Geronimo Course in Scottsdale, AZ. Plays 197 yards to a slightly green that looks like the entire desert landscape engulfs the target. The green has a very deep bunker front left and it's a real demanding hole. One of the really nice touches is the statue of Geronimo behind the green.

« **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:21:38 PM »

Matt, thanks for reminding me about Geronimo. I played it a long time ago when it was fairly new, so I forgot about it. White Beeches was a thread introduced yesterday. What a great looking Travis layout.

I wonder where the Huckster, et al is with regards to Pasatiempo?

« **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:24:59 PM »

Here's the 18th hole at a new course north of San Diego called The Golf Club of California (not to be confused in any way shape or form with Cal Club).

103 yds from the front tee, 180-200 from the back tees. It is a Landmark Golf/Johnny Pott design. Not my cup of tea, at all. The club website is at www.thegolfclubofcalifornia.com

« **Reply #7 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:29:51 PM »

Rob: not much to say about 18 at Pasa that we haven't covered before here - sorry! 'Twas Goodale who postulated that the Good Doctor ran out of room, and we know how off his rocker Rich gets at times... I have no problem with the hole other than trying to find a way to 2putt that bloody green!

I recently played a GREAT par 3 finisher at a couse called Fox Acres CC, outside of Fort Collins, CO. Doug Wright's played it... it is a doozy. 230 yards all over water to a green with more elephants buried than all of Africa. Fits in pretty well with the course and the only problem is that for such a heroic shot, you ought to get a reward on the green... hmmm... kinda sounds like Pasa, though for my money Pasa "works" better because it's shorter and more precision should be required.

Kevin - haven't heard anything re this new course... I'm gonna be in Carlsbad around Christmas.. is it worth checking out?

TH

« **Reply #8 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:34:37 PM »

The 18th at Roaring Gap (Ross), North Carolina, is a wonderful 190 yard uphill par 3.

Bob

« **Reply #9 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:41:58 PM »

Tom, it appears to be a wannabe Courdevalle (sp?). The web site has a hole by hole tour, and it makes my eyes wince. So I'll let you be the judge. I haven't personally been there, though, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

« **Reply #10 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:48:32 PM »

KR - I rather enjoyed Cordevalle... but I getcha, ultra-expensive corporate membership private club, eh? We need so many more of those, don't we?

I can't find it through google... send me the URL if you would be so kind.

Thanks!

TH
tom.huckaby@clorox.com

« **Reply #11 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:51:54 PM »

Tom, I posted the url above, but here it is again my friend: www.thegolfclubofcalifornia.com

« **Reply #12 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:51:58 PM »

KR - never mind - got it - yes, this is scary looking!

TH

« **Reply #13 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:55:42 PM »

Scary indeed. A good one for today!

« **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:56:23 PM »

Jeez, new record for my blindness. Thanks, Kevin - both times.

Interesting, membership initiation fee is "only" $35,000. As you know that's dirt compared to anywhere in the Bay Area. The more I look at the course, the more "interesting" anyway the golf holes look.. did ya see the Riviera copy with the bunker in the middle?

If I lived in Carlsbad like my brother and had $35k lying around, there would be worse places for me to be a member at...

TH

« **Reply #15 on:** October 31, 2002, 01:59:30 PM »

The Mahony's Point course at Killarney, Ireland finishes with a 180-200 yard par-3 played along the shore of Lake Killarney.
It was made famous by Henry Longhurst's comment "Oh what a lovely place to die!"

« **Reply #16 on:** October 31, 2002, 02:03:23 PM »

Hope Valley CC in Durham, NC (Ross, circa 1926) ends with a 200 yd., slightly uphill par three.
Is this a Ross feature? Could more match play in those days be a factor in this design? (i.e., fewer strokes given on the 18th?)

« **Reply #17 on:** October 31, 2002, 02:10:26 PM »

Tom, here's a strange one...hole #3, about 350 yds. The sliver of fairway up about 100yds from the hole...what purpose does it serve?

« **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2002, 03:00:49 PM »

Quote

I have to steal a bit of Pat Mucci's thunder, but his home course, Preakness Hills (Wayne, NJ), also closes with a neat par-3 of roughly 140 yards over a pond to a two-tiered green that is encircled by sand in a "C" formation. What's really amazing is that the club's dining room is right behind the hole and there's been a few shots over the years that have air-mailed the intended target.

That kinda goes over to the "fear factor" thread. Fear of breaking the big picture window I'm sure is there that would set you back a nice chunk of change. Fear of looking like an idiot to all the members dining there. Not really a reasonable fear for such a short hole, but I'd bet a lot of balls end up short when it plays with a strong wind, just in case...

« **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2002, 03:15:51 PM »

Doug:

The key when playing the 18th at Preakness is having enough guts to hit it deep enough to reach the second tier. Plenty of people back off from the shot because if you go too far and reach the sand behind the green you'll have to execute an all-time Seve-like recovery.

I'm sure Pat can articulate just how many balls have made an early entrance for brunch.

« **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2002, 07:01:04 PM »

Well, I stand corrected on my earlier club suggestions for 18. Did anyone see Phil and Bones talking over club selection today on 18? Either nail a 2-iron, or hit a "laid off" 3-wood. Phil did what I did on the same hole -- take extra club, double cross myself, and have a nice little recovery from the left side!!

Oh well, I guess that's why Phil is Phil and I am typing on a golf course architecture web site @ 9:00 pm!!!

« **Reply #21 on:** November 01, 2002, 07:12:19 AM »

Kevin - good question... that is one we'd have to see to understand, isn't it???

TH

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