Impressions of Ballyneal for those who have played there

[Scott Szabo]

Now that the course is open for play, I know some of you had the chance to play recently.  It is still a very young course in terms of conditioning, and the project is along way from being finished.  Do you have anything to share with the rest of us?

I played there in May and have my own opinions, but wanted to see what the rest of you thought.

[Tom_Doak]

Scott:  I played three rounds in late May, myself.  But I'm kind of biased.  Why don't you start?

I found the course relatively easy on my trip.  It isn't long, especially with the fairways rolling well and the altitude.  But I think it will get harder to score on over the next few months, as the greens get firmer and faster, making it harder to get the ball close to the hole for birdies, and harder to get up and down after a missed green to save par.

[Scott Szabo]

I played there in early May, on a fairly windy day.  I carry a 3 handicap, am fairly straight off the tee and not real long (about 280 or so).  The greens were very slow when I played, thus making for a fairly frustrating day.  I realize they are still in the grow-in phase, and I look forward to playing again when they reach peak condition.

The fairways were quite wide, and the greens quite large, which was something I was hoping for as we do get quite a bit of wind in northeast Colorado (I live about 45 miles from Holyoke in Sterling).  The course was very playable for all handicaps, although, IMO the greens were somewhat severe on some of the longer holes (#6 immediately comes to mind).  

The variety of holes (direction, distance, etc.) immediately comes to mind as a design feature at Ballyneal that should appeal to all.  There were a few par fours in excess of 450 yards (#2, 6, 10, 13, 17 and 18) and a few par fours under 400 yards (#7, 12 and 14) which provided great variety and enjoyment.  The same can be said for the par threes, each with different greenside features that made them very enjoyable.  Then for the par fives: #4 straight downhill from the tee with a view that is unparallele; #8 up the chute and across the centerline bunkers to a rolling, well bunkered green; and finally #16, with its 90 degree dogleg left after the tee shot.  

The finishing holes at Ballyneal (#17 and 18) are very difficult ones if played into the wind (as was the case when I played).  If the wind blows, this will be a very difficult course to score on.  If the wind doesn't blow, it is the type of course that a good player will be able to put together a good round on, which is typical of a well-designed layout.

Favorite holes?  Probably #15, #8 and #17.  Least favorite?  #6 (for the green contours on a 480 yard par four).

All in all, I thoroughly enjoyed my round at Ballyneal and look forward to returning soon. I also enjoyed reading Ran's course profile, and would concur with about everything that was said.  When the playing conditions mature and are as desired, this will be one great golf course to play.  I haven't played as many of the great courses as many on CGA have, but I have been fortunate to have played Sand Hills and Castle Pines, and think Ballyneal will prove to rank right up there when all is said and done.

Tom, this is the first course that I have played that you have designed.  I look forward to a trip early next spring to Bandon Dunes to play all three courses, and can't wait to see your layout at Pacific Dunes.  The O'Neal brothers should be very proud of what they've done at Ballyneal, and so should you.

[ed_getka]

Scott,
   What is it about the green contours that you take issue with on #6? Is it not possible to play the hole for any level of golfer? Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the course.

[Scott Szabo]

Simply put, I feel the green contours are a little severe for such a long hole.  Granted, when I played the course the pins were in ridiculous spots in order to allow for proper grow in on the greens, and the speed had to be no more than 5 or 6 on the stimp, so I may need to back off my statement a little until I've played the course in the proper conditions.  

By the way, I four putted the hole, so that may have something to do with my thoughts!!!

[ed_getka]

Scott,
   I have no problem with your opinion, I am just curious about the hole. Do you feel the green will be holdable under normal conditions, or do you feel that after having to hit 2 great shots to get to the green that making a putt shouldn't be so difficult? Some friends have been out there in the last week so I will be hearing more soon, but I enjoy reading what people think about the course to get the most viewpoints possible.

[John Kirk]

I just returned from a ten day visit to Ballyneal, where I helped them "break in" the new course.

The turf looks good, though it's probably a little too dry for this early in the season.  Eastern Colorado has been dry and hot this spring and summer.  Everything greens up considerably after a summer shower.

The greens are still shaggy and slow.  We have to be patient, and allow them to mature properly before they get faster.  As a result, greenside play is quite easy, once you get used to the slow speeds.  There's no penalty for leaving yourself above the hole.

To summarize, I think Ballyneal is a very solid, well designed golf course.  It starts you off pretty easy, and gets consistently more challenging until finishing with the tricky 16th and the long 17th and 18th holes.

I don't feel that Ballyneal has the same soul inspiring aura that Pacific Dunes possesses.  It is tough to beat the ocean for inspiration.  Ballyneal is just a damn good golf course.  Every hole is fun to play; every hole is attractive.  The course fits well together.  It's not too hard for the mid-handicapper, and it's not too easy for the scratch player.  The native areas play as intended; you can almost always find your ball, and if you're smart about it, it's usually a one stroke penalty.  The undulating playing surfaces make it play a little different each time.  Solid.

When Old Tom Doak is actually old, I believe he'll look back fondly at Ballyneal as one of his most well rounded and consistent courses.

We had six GCA members play the course during my visit.  Hopefully they will add their thoughts here.  I'll add more thoughts later.

[Tom_Doak]

Ed / Scott:

The sixth green is indeed a severe green for a very long par-4.  The hole often plays into the summer wind and in those conditions a lot of players will be hitting a short third shot into the green; downwind I have seen the assistant pro hit a wedge second shot, but he's an animal.  The green was designed to separate the men from the boys.

There is a high tier on the right of the green and a couple of lower tiers to the left.  Getting to the left-hand pins shouldn't be that hard, especially since you can miss the green left and have an easy chip from there with the right-hand tier as a backstop.  Getting up on the top right is a much more difficult proposition.

[Dan Kelly]

The sixth green is indeed a severe green for a very long par-4.

Tom --

In one of the Sebonack threads, I attempted, without success, to start a discussion of What Kind of Hole Should Have a Severe Green.

Would you please give your views on that?

I don't understand, at all, the (apparent) thinking that because a hole offers significant tee-to-green challenge, the green shouldn't be severe. (?)

If that is your (or anyone's) thinking, doesn't it reflect an excessive (IMO) devotion to the concept of "par" -- and perhaps to the concept of "fairness"?

Dan

[Matthew Schulte]

The scale of Ballyneal is truly awe inspiring.  The routing is superb.  Not only are the green to tee walks very short, but the routing makes use of its’ spectacular dunes in a variety of ways.  There are elevated tees, tees below the fairway, holes that play into valleys between dunes, and holes that play over some of the smaller dunes.  The finish work is exceptional.  Even having read Ran’s report it is very difficult, if not impossible to spot the areas that had been filled, cut, or shaped.  This will be even more difficult to spot as the native areas continue to fill in.

I personally think the strength of the course is found on and around its’ greens.  The course will undoubtedly be a few strokes more difficult once optimal speeds are attained both on and around the greens.  I especially liked the 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th 11th & 12th greens.

The par 3s definitely become increasingly more difficult as the round goes along.  The 3rd will benefit the most eventually from the increase in green speeds as its’ main defense is the large hump in the left center of the green.  I especially liked the 11th from the back tee playing from the dune top tee box to the dune top exposed green.  The golfer standing on the tee for the first time has no idea of the danger that lurks left of the green.  

Ballyneal is blessed with four “half par” par 4s.  If played into any sort of wind, a four on holes 6, 10 and 13 from the back tees would be a very good score.  Not only are holes 6 and 10 very long par 4s, but they both feature heavily contoured greens.  The 7th hole will likely be the standout hole most first time players will remember.  It is a highly original green complex.  While it can be driven by even a medium length hitter with a helping wind, if the pin is in either the middle or back fingers of the green, you may be better off in the fairway with a wedge in hand than on the green.  

Each of the three par 5s are unique and all offer very interesting second shots.  The 16th, which reminded me loosely of the 16th at Ballybunion, will really test your patience and decision making at a critical point in the round.  Knowing that the last two holes are tough par 4s, the player feels some pressure to make the most of what is not only the only par 5 on the backside, but also the last real birdie chance of the round.  The layup forces you to layup to a point somewhere between 150 -180 for your third shot depending on how aggressively you layup.  From that point par is no certainty.  However, the target going toward the green on the second shot calls for both courage and precision.

Whether Ballyneal can claim the title of “King of the Prairie” can very legitimately be debated.  Ballyneal is absolutely that good.  

[Larry_Keltto]

I played Ballyneal last week -- 99 holes in all -- and it was as enjoyable a golf experience as I've ever had.

I basically joined Ballyneal two years ago, prior to construction, so my opinions aren’t going to be very objective, I’m sure. When I first saw the property, I thought it was destined for world-class greatness. Playing the course has confirmed that opinion. Watching the construction process was a thrill, and I was almost sad to see that part end, but the golf is much more fun.

The tee shots, fairways, green surrounds, the greens themselves present fascinating golf questions, and I suspect there's an infinite number of answers for those questions.

The options presented by the green contours and the surrounds are great. On #6, for example, there were at least five distinctively different options presented to me when I was long left, and the pin was back left.

Adam Clayman and I were playing at twilight. I wasn't playing my best, but with a wide smile I said, "I've never had so much fun making bogey." Ballyneal gives you the opportunity to recover from poor shots, and that is always fun. On that same round, Adam was 100 yards out on #8, the pin was back center, and he said: "This is either a 5 iron or a wedge." And he was right. He used the 5 iron and rolled it to about 8 feet.

The fairways are very wide, but the effective width in many cases is quite narrow. Number 17 is an example. The left side of #17 provides a good look at the green, a good angle, and a relatively level stance. The right side leaves you blind, likely with a severe sidehill stance, and a route to the hole that includes three bunkers.

I thought the greens were faster at the end of my stay than at the beginning, perhaps because the course was drying out after a deluge a few days before I arrived. The greens will become faster with time, of course, but with the extreme contour of the greens and the potential for high wind, the greens never will be super fast. The best players will adjust.

With the multitude of uneven stances in the fairways, I thought of Pennard and the old joke: “How do you challenge someone from Pennard? Give him a flat lie.”

The vegetation in the native area is sparse enough for players to think they have an opportunity to save par. But it’s sand under the ball, and the sand’s consistency varies – sometimes soft, sometimes hard. It’s difficult to know exactly what you’re dealing with until you strike the ball. I saw this lead to indecision and some disastrous results.

I asked the caddies which holes seem to be the favorites of players. "Number 7" ALWAYS was the first thing out of their mouths. I don't think the early affection for #7 says anything negative about the other holes -- #7 is just off-the-charts fun. My favorite four, after #7, at this point are: #8, #13, #17, and #18 (from the tees that give a diagonal tee shot). My favorite par 3 is probably #5, but that's a really difficult decision to make. Number 15 from the back tees is phenomenal -- try keeping it on the green with a helping wind. Not easy.

Perhaps the thing that stands out for me at Ballyneal is the totality of the course -- the variety of tee shots, for example. On the front 9: diagonal on #1, tumbling/downhill #2, incredible vista on #4, blind shot at #6, #7 of course, the threat of the cross bunker on #8, and then a visually straight hole on #9. The contrast between the tee shots at #4 and #6 underscores the course’s variety – on #4 you can see for 15 miles, on #6 you’re blind. That’s brilliant architecture.

Three final notes:

I spoke with one prospective member who has seen many/most of the world’s best courses. He was taking a quick break after he'd played the front 9 for the first time -- he hadn't seen the back 9 yet. I asked what he thought. "Top 100 in the world, easy."

I saw John Kirk shoot 69 and two days later saw a scratch man who will not be named shoot 81. Wind conditions were the same for both players, but John hit his intended spots in the fairway, and the other one didn’t. John then had much better stances and angles of attack to the pins. John also was very observant when on the greens – an absolute must for scoring at Ballyneal.

Like Matthew, I noticed the striking similarity between #16 at Ballyneal and #16 at Ballybunion.  

[Sean Leary]

Much of what I think about the course has been said in the above posts.  One thing that hasn't been mentioned much is the wind direction.  We played three different winds in three days, and it made each of the holes play very differently.  On 18 the first day, I hit driver 8 iron down wind, the the next two days were more into the wind and I had three wood and three iron. Combine this with the variety of each of the holes, variety of the locations possible on the severe greens and it is like playing a different course every day.

Clearly the defense against scoring is in the greens, and where they can put the hole locations.  Long hitters have the advantage of gaining extra length by being able to reach downhill slopes in the fairways that will propel the ball forward.  

The speed of the greens was a non factor for me in evaluating the golf course.  I can see what they are going to be like when optimal.  That is enough for me.

Top 5 Modern potential, in my mind, maybe Top 3. It is so serene and so quiet and peaceful there, just a wonderful experience.

[Tim Bert]

I just posted a very long message with my thoughts on the course, including a hole-by-hole summary - only to learn the hard way that the length of the post needs to be monitored before submitting.

It's too late in the evening for me to muster up the energy needed to duplicate my original effort.  I'll try to post my thoughts in pieces over the next couple of days.

For now, the executive summary - FUN, FUN, FUN!!!

[Tyler Kearns]

 

Least favorite?  #6 (for the green contours on a 480 yard par four).

Scott,

If the scorecard said par 5 instead of 4, would your opinion remain the same?

TK

[Mark_F]

The green was designed to separate the men from the boys.

Is this really the best way to separate the men from the boys?

I thought driving was. (a better way?)

[Alan Gard]

Here are my impressions on Ballyneal which I had the privilege of playing just over a week ago.

When I was watching the sun rise at 5 in the morning the land looked no different than my dad's farmland just outside of Lincoln, NE.  Why I was up at 5:00 is another story (involving an alarm mix up), but I must apologize to Mr. Kirk as I believe I disturbed his group in the adjacent room at the Golden Plains.  Anyway, what I saw surprised me as there were certainly no hills in my line of sight.  Whereas when approaching Sand Hills, miles before the course one experiences the rolling terrain, the chop hills come up on you more abruptly.  On our drive to the course from Holyoke, the hills looked so far off, and then all of a sudden the farmland ends, replaced by the sandy hills.  Not knowing what to expect, it certainly is a jolt with the shift in terrain.  Once on the course, one certainly feels isolated from the outside world and ready to enjoy the course.

And the course presents plenty to enjoy.  There is an excellent variety of holes, and the course asks you a lot of questions about how you want to attack it.  The greens also are set up such that it looks like the holes can play very different based on the pin position.  My personal favorites are #4, #7, #10, #14, and #18, but one can and will find a reason to like just about every hole out here.  #7 as discussed in this thread is a common favorite.  I have to apologize to Mr. Doak a little here as I accidentally reshaped one of his fairway bunkers on this hole as the edge collapsed in on me as I was climbing out of it.  The only hole that didn't stand out to me was #9 as I didn't think it pushed one to make much of a strategic choice.

The dunes offer plenty of penalty, and I can speak from first hand experience as I spent a significant amount of time in them.  One must for the most part just concentrate on getting out of them rather than hitting a recovery shot.  I will also say (and maybe this is just because I'm injured right now) walking in them takes a lot out of you...so avoid them if you can!

Lastly, I appreciated the lack of defined tees.  There are often teeing areas from completely different angles, which allows the course to morph completely from the one you played in the morning.  This also creates a great match play feel as par can be irrelevant.

Certainly, the world of golf is way better for having Ballyneal in it.

[RJ_Daley]

"This is either a 5 iron or a wedge."

Leave it to Adam to come up with a succinct and insightful comment.

Gents, great reading and descriptions.  I don't know about you, but when I get a chance to go to one of these much revered courses, I like to read such comments and descriptions before I go in preparation of what I might see there.  Because such opportunities are rare, and one won't likely repeat play at these sort of remote and private venues, I think it is valuable to read up a bit on what others have seen, inorder that your rare round will not be completely without some understanding of what folks have found there.  Then, you can make your own judgements.  One time experiences without some preparation may cause you to miss something due to an errant shot to the wrong area, etc.  

It makes you wonder just how rich of a golf experience a season would be if you could play courses like this 30-50 times a year!  

From the sounds of it, guys like Adam won't soon be exhausted from inventing new approaches...  

[Doug Wright]

I had the good fortune of 27 holes at Ballyneal on Saturday. I have a number of initial impressions, but they are only that at this point. I believe that one needs several rounds on a course to fully appreciate it, especially one that has as much going on as Ballyneal and that plays very differently depending on the ever-present and varying wind conditions. Also, I believe Ballyneal's character will change dramatically as the green speeds come up.

First, the course looks like it's been there forever. I cannot believe it just opened. There really aren't any of the "rough spots" one might see in other new courses, bare patches, grass growing in, etc. Yes the greens are slow. However, they putt very true for the most part and don't detract from the experience. The fairways are already pretty near perfect.

Second, the routing is excellent, which doesn't surprise me given what Tom and the boys had to work with--lots of acres and dunes, dunes and more dunes! Like Sand Hills, I'm sure there were many many routing options available to Renaissance. As Ran's profile* points out, the course routing allows for all manner of wind conditions during a round. Not Muirfield's impeccable clockwise/counterclockwise routing, but a great variety nonetheless.

Third, I love the width--much wider than Sand Hills. This is where repeat play would in particular lead to better understanding and appreciation, because on a single day's play one appreciates the width for what it is--a better chance to hit a fairway! As Ran points out in his profile, there are subtle and not so subtle options available on nearly every hole. Most pronounced would be the 17th, where it is absolutely counterintuitive to hit it quite far left when the right side is directly in line with the green from the tee, but the left side clearly is the Line of Charm and the right side is No Good as I found out during my one playing.

Fourth, the fairway bunkering is terrific. Not always in play (eg the opening tee shot) but always lurking enough to warrant attention and true hazards if you find 'em. I didn't think the greenside bunkering was as threatening as I expected or as fierce as, say, Pacific Dunes (eg nothing like the blowout on the left of Pacific Dunes #6), but perhaps I need to look more closely. I did like the little pot bunker in the front of the par 3 5th--it controls your thinking when playing to a front pin as we did. I mentioned to my host that Tom Doak should think about putting one like that into the center front of the 10th at Pacific Dunes, replacing the knob there that has a more benign effect.

Fifth, my favourite holes at Ballyneal are the long par 4s (2, 6, 10, 13, 17). They clearly are the holes most impacted by the wind direction and velocity, and I think they'd be fun and challenging in any conditions. Regarding the par 4 6th, which is discussed above, I had shortish third shots into the green both times I played it and therefore found the green to be appropriate. It's just a "hard par" hole in my opinion, and if I had to pick one I'd say it's the best hole on the course--not the most fun, just the best.   I liked the short par 4 7th because I love green contours that throw the ball around.

Sixth, I'm not sold on the par 3 3rd, which seemed like a fairly weak hole compared to the rest. I also didn't think that 9 was a great hole (also by comparison). The other three par 3s are very solid, and I think the long 15th to the bowl green is world class.  I liked the three par 5s. #16 is a strategic par 5 that will require much play to solve.

Finally, how hard is it? Remains to be seen. Like many fine courses in GB&I or even a course like Pacific or Bandon Dunes or Sand Hills, if the wind is down I suspect Ballyneal can be tamed by many players. There are plenty of birdie opportunities, and the savvy player can avoid big numbers in part due to the fairway widths and the ability to find and advance most balls hit off the fairways. But I think it will be a challenge in the prevailing windy conditions like those that I experienced during my day there.

Renaissance and the O'Neals have done a great job out there in the middle of nowhere (actually I told someone this weekend it's "East of the middle of nowhere"). Congratulations to them.


*I told my host that I didn't read Ran's review before playing the course, just as I try not to see or hear movie reviews before seeing a movie--I don't like to be influenced by someone else's opinion if I can help it. I have now read Ran's review and it is damned good. So RJ you and I will just have to be different on this point...

[Scott Szabo]

Tyler,

I think if it was a par 5 instead of a par 4, my opinion may be different.  Since I've made this post, I've given alot of thought as to severe greens and have read the post the Tom Doak started on this very subject.  Maybe I'm a little "old school" in my belief that a severe green should be found at the end of a relatively short hole, rather than a long hole.  For many golfers, just getting to the green in two on a long par four hole takes some work, only to find that, once there, they may face an impossible two putt for a satisfying par.

My reasoning is this:  most golfers have a better chance of controlling where their ball comes to rest with a short club in their hands, rather than an approach from 180-200 yards.  

Tom Doak did mention that he anticipated many players not being able to reach the green, thus requiring a shorter pitch and putt to save par.  

Based on many of the posts on this topic, I may be in the minority with my opinion.  But that's why this is such a great forum, people are willing to share their insight

[John Kirk]

For those of you who have played the course, fellow member Ryan Beaty cleared the big fairway bunker on #8 from the back tee, with only a slight helping wind.  It's about 345 to clear the native on the back side of the bunker.  He had about 150 left, on a 515 yard hole.

Not the percentage play, but we were a little awe struck.  Ryan can really hit it.

#12 is a much better hole than I remembered, really enjoyable to attack.

#13 is a much better hole from the second set of tees.  At 510 yards, I'm just aiming for the center and swinging for the fences.  At 425 yards, I'm picking a line, since all the bunkers come into play from there.

#14 won't get the same love as other short par 4 holes #7 and #12, but you've got to hit two good shots to ensure a 4.   Very few balls ended up on the nice flat spot right of the little center bunker.  I tried to hit it just short of the bunker.

You've got to score well early.  In terms of raw score, the front nine at par 36 is easier than the par 35 back nine.  Get your pars on 1, 3, 4, and 5.  No more than bogey on 2 and 6.  On 7 and 8, make your move.  A mid-handicapper playing well can go birdie-birdie there.  On the back nine, stay loose and don't take too many chances.  The biggest decision comes on #16, when you usually have to decide whether you can hit a solid shot over the cross bunker on your second shot.  If your score is still low by the 17th tee, you just try to play your best smart golf on the two long, straightforward finishers.  The 18th has a gentle sweeping curve to it that I find quite inspiring.

I found I didn't need a 3-wood.  I played the course with driver, 4-wood, 3-hybrid, 4-9 irons, with four wedges.  3-wood is a good driving club on #9 and #14, and could also be used #1, #17, and #12 under different circumstances.  In those cases, I manufactured something, usually the "change-up" driver.

[Tom_Doak]

Scott:

You are just too hung up over "par" in your assessment of the hole. I'm just trying to make the match interesting between you and somebody else, and in those circumstances, getting up close to the green in two is usually going to be rewarded over being 75 yards back -- because of those green contours you are complaining about.

[Scott Szabo]

Tom:

I never looked at it from that perspective.  I see what you are saying.  From your perspective, I can see where you and the others are coming from.

Scott

[Tim Bert]

Let me preface this post with a word about my golfing skills.  I'm not shooting any 69s anywhere ala Mr. Kirk.  I'm a 14 handicap that hasn't really maintained that number for about 9 months, as I've had little opportunity to play (but plenty of time toread about it) and I haven't really been playing in any events that require a handicap.  When I go on a golfing trip to new courses, my only scoring goal is to break 90 at the courses.  More often than not, due to my lack of familiarity with the course and due to the relative difficulty of courses encountered on such trips, I don't achieve my goal.  90 - 95 is my standard number on such trips, usually highlighted by some stretches of really good golf with a few blow-ups thrown in for posterity.

I'm also number-obsessed when I play golf.  I try hard not to be, but my mind is very numerical, and I'm constantly adding up the score and what I need on the upcoming hole to be on pace to shoot a particular score.  It's a curse.  I tell you this only because I'm happy to report that for the first time in many years, I had no idea what my score was on any nine until I added it up.  Sure, I could have pegged it within 4 or 5 strokes, but I didn't know the number.  I credit this to two things - first, a caddie that kept the discussion lively (both golf and other topics) and yet remained attentive enough to my game to help me through the shots while I focused on the golf course and second, a golf course that was a heck of a lot of fun to play.  For the record, the score at the end of my first 18 was 45 - 42 - 87.  I was pleasantly surprised!

Enough about the sad state of my golf game...

Ballyneal has amazing green and fairway contours.  They are a thrill to play, and the green complexes will be even better once the speed picks up a bit.  There were times when a well struck shot didn't quite feed and seemed to stop in an impossible spot.  I don't think this will be an issue for long.  On the contrary, I think it is important that they carefully put a cap on the max speed.  I'd love to see the greens putt about half way between their current speed and the speed at Sand Hills last week, which I think was a bit too fast for the contours.

I LOVE the concept of no set tee markers.  We played a mix of all tee boxes during each of the two rounds there.  We ended up playing the course at about 6650 the first time around and 6450 the second time around.  For the second round, we let the person that won the previous hole call the tee box on the next hole.  There is enough variety on several of the holes depending upon the tee box selection that you could play a different course every day.  Combine this with the ever-changing wind and you've got infinite possibilities.

We played in a very mild wind.  I was thankful for this on the long holes into the wind, but I would have enjoyed playing the course in some nastier conditions as well.

I think the course sets up well for match play.  As noted above, the tee boxes contribute to this atmosphere, but there are so many options on each hole and each shot that it is a great venue for hole-by-hole play.  It is also suited for match play because while the fairways are generous, when you miss them the penalty can be steep, which could take someone out of stroke play quicker than match play.

I think the par 3s are outstanding.  I really like the way the two on the front nine look and play, and I love the challenge of the two on the back nine.

As a set, the par 5s aren't as enjoyable as the par 3s or par 4s, but this is misleading because the par 3s and 4s are so good.  The par 5s are great golf holes.

My favorite holes were #2, #3, #5, #7, #13, and #18.  I also really liked #6, #8, #10, #14, and #17.  I know that is just about all of them, but I feel like I'm slighting the ones that I didn't include!  I, like a few others that have posted, thought that #9 was the least interesting hole on the course.

I think that those who are complaining about the green on #6 should consider the middle tee, which plays from about 430 and still creates and interesting, blind angle to the fairway from the tee.  It's a great hole, and the free form tees allow you to mix it up if you want.  I played the hole with a mild helping wind and I think I had 9-iron in after the tee shot.  I don't recall the green being too severe.

I love Doak's homage to breasts on the #8 green.  More on that to follow with my hole-by-hole commentary in the days ahead.

Did I mention I think the course is fun to play?    

[Scott Szabo]

Does anyone know how many members they have at Ballyneal?  I see alot of posts from people who have recently played the course, but I wasn't aware that there were many official members.

Are the O'Neals allowing playing opportunities for prospective members?

[Tom_Doak]

Scott:

Mostly you are seeing these responses because there are three members who are regulars at gca.com, and they've had a bunch of guests in the past month.

I believe Ballyneal has sixty or seventy members right now.  I don't know what their protocol is regarding potential members, but I suspect a smart negotiator could pay for a preview round.