[Stu Grant]

When a golf hole is laid out parallel to a road, and a wayward (OB) teeshot breaks the windshield of a car driving by, whose responsibility is it to cover the damages?  

a)  The golfer who hit the bad shot?
b)  The golf course whose hole is so close to a busy road?
c)  The architect who designed the course?
d)  Other?

For 75 years, the finishing hole at my home course (St. Marys G&CC in Ontario, Canada) has run parallel to main street.  Current ownership is seriously contemplating changing the final two holes to mitigate the risk of balls striking cars and I am curious to know who is actually responsible for damages in cases such as these.  Anyone run into a similar problem before?

Here's what the 322 yard 18th hole looks like right now, as viewed from the back tee looking towards the green in the distance.  You can see the road on the far right of the picture:



It's actually a pretty decent finishing hole...the OB greatly influences play, as golfers who bail out left of the narrow fairway are often faced with a difficult approach shot to hit the green in regulation due to the trees on the left that protect the adjacent 17th hole.  The prudent play is to hit an iron off the tee and find the plateau about 110-130 yards from centre of the 18th green, as most teeshots hit outside this range come to rest on a tricky uphill approach.  Yet for big hitters seeking an eagle or two-putt birdie, the hole is potentially short enough to drive the green, though this brings the OB into play that much more.

It's a tough call....you hate to see windshields get busted (apparently it happens about 5-6 times a year) but I also hate to see the 18th hole and particularly the very strong 17th hole get re-routed!!  

Appreciate any thoughts...

[TEPaul]

Stu:

I went through the research of those very same questions you asked about 5-6 years ago. Rather than me trying to explain any of it to you the very best thing for you to do is call the NCA (National Club Association) in Washingtone D.C and ask them if they would supply you with the entire national legal case histories of that type of thing. Initially, that kind of liability used to fall pretty much to the golfer but various cases and legal precedences has change that quite dramatically in recent years. Now the club is libel to a far greater extent than it used to be.

[Ryan Farrow]

If the golf course is considering changing the holes around I am sure they are responsible for damages. Most courses that have roads near the course will have signs that say you are responsible for damages. If not I think the golf course is responsible.

I hit 2 drives into a Lexus dealership once and they were trying to wave me over to the stucco fence. I did not bite.  

[ed_getka]

Stu,
   I don't know the answer, but given that it happens 5-6 times/year somebody at the club should know what generally happens. Plus the fact that you are in Canada makes it a very different situatioin. Try contacting Jeff Mingay or Ian.

[John Kirk]

While playing Merion East for the first time last May, an infrequent GCA poster here, who shall remain nameless, pulled his tee shot on hole #15.  We noted well in advance that his drive was on a collision course with a large sedan heading down the country club road.  Our fears were realized seconds later.  BAM!  The driver got out, looked at the hood and roof of his/her car, and drove off.  No harm, no foul.

[Wayne_Kozun]

The 18th hole at Scarboro G&CC in Toronto runs perpendicular to a road - the tee shot has to carry 100 yds to make it over the road.  If you sky a tee shot it can land on the road and damage passing vehicles.  There is a sign on the tee informing golfers that they must pay for any such damages.

Note that the hole was built in 1912 long before the road existed.  The road was at first a narrow dirt road that was gradually expanded.

The decision at St. Marys may have something to do with what happened at Islington where shots were often entering a back yard that bordered the property.  The club was forced to re-route the hole.  Credit Valley (in Mississauga) is re-routing its 3rd hole in the near future for similar reasons, or so I am told.

There are many courses that have holes that run parallel to roads - such as Chedoke Golf Course in Hamilton it is very possible to hit onto a 6-lane highway (Hwy 403), and Donalda where a badly sliced drive could land on the Don Valley Parkway.

[Andy Troeger]

While playing in a junior invitational (format was alternate shot) at my home club I once lofted a 7-iron left of the 9th hole that came crashing down on one of my opponents' mother's minivan in the parking lot and bounced back into play. He was in the group behind, so it was not as if he saw the shot.

I went and checked out the vehicle and couldn't find a dent in it or any of the others, so I notified the golf shop that if anyone did find anything later that I was the culprit.

However, the guy got his revenge. We hacked up the last hole for a double bogey and ended up in a playoff with the guy whose vehicle I had clanked earlier. On the first playoff hole, they get up and down from 150 yards for a par to tie us (we had hit the green 20 feet and two-putted). Second hole they blade it 30 yards over the green into a forest, and get that up and down too. We missed a 6 footer to win, and made a 4 footer to stay alive  ! Third hole they stick it to a foot for birdie, game over. Guess that was my punishment since we never did find anything regarding anything broken/dented in the parking lot  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Stu,

In the US, whoever the lawyer can get to.....

Seriously, courts usually rule that it is the golfer, unless the design of the hole is such that the club could have known there was unreaonable danger.  Of course, there would be a trial (or settlement just before trial) to determine the clear and present danger a particular hole might have in its design.

Bob Crosby of these boards once looked up the history of golf legal cases, and luckily, found it to be relatively devoid of such lawsuits.  They do happen, and us architect types repeat the stories so often that it seems like they happen all the time.

[Jon Wiggett]

Stu,

at North Berwick the car park runs along the right side of the 18 fairway. Included in the greenfee is a £5 insurance policy in case you dent a parked car. Maybe your home course might consider doing something similar.

[wsmorrison]

I was fighting pulled iron shots all day when playing with Tom Paul, Ed Baker and Dave Miller at Ed and Dave's home course, Charles River CC.  There's a par 3 near the clubhouse (9th) with a parking lot to the left of the hole.  When Tom and I parked the car, Dave came out and said we should move the car as balls frequently hit windshields.  Tom moved the car and we proceeded to have a great day although my shoulder woes were in their early stages that trip.  Well, we got to the par 3 hole and I did hit a car windshield.  Luckily Massachussetts has a no fault windshield law.  The owner's insurance company pays for any windshield damage.  I guess this is because cinders or whatever is used on the roads during winter often ding windshields.  I left a note of apology in any case but the owner wanted me to pay for the damage anyway.  I told him about the law and never heard back from him.  Still fighting the pulls by the way but I got a great lesson the other day and it has helped....so far.

[TEPaul]

So, one of the NCA's lawyers told me that in these types of situations the basic "test" (perhaps it may be referred to as a situation precedent) is that a golf course can avoid libility if it can be established that they did whatever might be considered reasonable to alleviate a potentially dangerous situation. This, however, in no way means that a golf course is responsible for removing a potentially dangerous situation altogether for the simply reason that apparently the legal thinking is that there are aspects of golf that can be inherently dangerous, and that everyone could be expected accept that fact---including perhaps someone driving by the golf course.

[TEPaul]

Interesting remark about a car getting clobbered by a golf ball on Golf Club Rd to the left of Merion's 15th.

When it comes to cars getting hit by golf balls and that type of libility situation, Merion East is a totally special case in the world of golf and libilety.

The reason for that is because it's the grand and glorious and ultra famous Merion East.

There are an unusual number of cold cases around these parts of wives and children and whole vans and SUVs that were last heard of driving somewhere around Merion East but have never been seen  or heard of again.

The reason for that is Merion East has a crack demolition squad (loosely under the control of super head super, Matt Shaeffer (excuse me Matt, I should say "DIRECTOR of ALL MERION's GOLFING FACILITIES and RELATED MATTERS")) who, if a golf ball hits a car, can be out in that street to remove that car to the maintenance facility where it will be immediately compacted into an extremely heavy 6 by 6 steel block with wives and children inside and on a truck to the river where it is placed on a barge and dumped out to sea, and all accomplished in under 44 and 1/2 minutes.

And if some duffus gets away and tries to sue Merion East for this type of accident the chances are good that both he and the offending lawyer and judge will all be within an 6 by 6 extremely heavy steel block and on their way out to sea with the rest of Philly's sludge and fecal matter.

This genius of a superintendent, Matt Shaeffer, is of the philosophy that any conceivable problem relating to the Merion golf course can be solved if there is enough money to throw at it.

So the moral of Merion's libilety situation is that if you get hit by a golf ball from the course get the hell away from Merion, and from Ardmore itself as fast as you possibly can or you too may be another of the growing number of Cold Cases around here.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

There was a thread on this topic last year about a club in MA that had to redesign a hole because golf balls were bombarding a neighboring house. The legal theory is that of a nuisance. With passing vehicles, the same theory could apply. Here is an article in an ABA Journal on topic:

http://tinyurl.com/ng87j

[Jeff_Brauer]

Steve,

In fact, I think the legal lresponsibility to the club would generally be larger on an adjacent road, given the passersby would be less likely to be aware of pending danger than an adjacent homeowner.

As TEPaul said, and from the few cases I know of well, things like tree planting, fences, etc. are seemingly considered by a court as mitigating measures, and I can't recall of too many cases where it was presumed you could move all or part of a golf hole, even when, from my perspective, that would be the obvious best - if not cheapest - choice.

[tlavin]

I'm a personal injury lawyer whose tee shot occasionally goes wayward, so I'm uniquely qualified to answer:  "Who cares?"  We're talking about property damage here.  A better question, to my mind, is who is responsible when a club allows the practice of forecaddying and a kid gets hit in the head and is neurologically injured?  I can see a club getting successfully sued for real money in that situation.  There are plenty of design issues out there on the golf courses of the world where cars or cows can get hurt, but clubs should do a better job of preventing injuries to caddies.

(The above is not a solicitation for cases or referrals of any kind, but those interested can go to 1-800-hurtbad.com for further information.)

[wsmorrison]

Terry,

It is possible that a windshield could be struck on a passing car and the driver could be frightened enough to get into an accident--either a one car or multiple car accident resulting in a serious injury or death.

[Bob_Huntley]

Stu,

at North Berwick the car park runs along the right side of the 18 fairway. Included in the greenfee is a £5 insurance policy in case you dent a parked car. Maybe your home course might consider doing something similar.

Jon,

Does the Secretary get the insurance commission?

Bob

[Bob_Huntley]

I'm a personal injury lawyer whose tee shot occasionally goes wayward, so I'm uniquely qualified to answer:  "Who cares?"  We're talking about property damage here.  A better question, to my mind, is who is responsible when a club allows the practice of forecaddying and a kid gets hit in the head and is neurologically injured?  I can see a club getting successfully sued for real money in that situation.  There are plenty of design issues out there on the golf courses of the world where cars or cows can get hurt, but clubs should do a better job of preventing injuries to caddies.

(The above is not a solicitation for cases or referrals of any kind, but those interested can go to 1-800-hurtbad.com for further information.)

Terry,

In certain parts of Ireland it is perfectly legal to move one's cattle or sheep along public roads. I heard one of my friend's remark that a wonderful way to increase the value of the breed, was to cross a cow with a Cadillac.

Bob  

[Wayne_Kozun]

In certain parts of Ireland it is perfectly legal to move one's cattle or sheep along public roads. I heard one of my friend's remark that a wonderful way to increase the value of the breed, was to cross a cow with a Cadillac.

What's the result?  A Cowdillac?  

But seriously, how many Cadillacs do you see in Ireland?

[Kirk Gill]

There was a case I heard of a few years ago in Denver where a 68-or-so year-old golfer was playing the first hole at City Park Golf Course and hooked his drive onto E. 26th Avenue and pegged a car coming eastbound. The amount of damage to the car was not, as I remember, mentioned in the newspaper article I read, as it focused instead on the beating and hospitalization of the golfer in question, and the arrest of the 20-something year-old assailant.

In this case I think it is safe to say that the golfer was found to be liable.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()