[wsmorrison]

"Newport is much more interesting architecturally than WFW."

You say it, constantly, but don't prove it.  Given that you've never been to Newport CC, we'd be foolish to take you as an authority so therefore your perspective has little value.  What specifically about Newport is interesting from an architectural perspective?  I agree that it is interesting, but wonder what you see on TV that allows you to make such a generalized comparison.  So far you've said that a par 3 is downhill when it is not.  You've said that the flat fairways at WFW are a negative but don't realize that there are a lot of flat fairways at Newport as well.  It seems he doesn't like the singularity of strategy at WFW but fails to recognize that course set up has a lot to do with that.  He thinks the greens are tricked up with the deep flanking bunkers and slopes and contours.  Yet he finds that dull and boring.  I don't get it.  What's more, I don't think Mikey does either.

Jim,

Good point.  I wonder what courses Mikey thinks WFW is more interesting.  

[mike_malone]

 The interplay between the elevation changes , the placement of bunkers, the routing, the different approaches,the bunker faces,and more  is just more varied as to look and play at Newport.

   

[wsmorrison]

"The interplay between the elevation changes , the placement of bunkers, the routing, the different approaches,the bunker faces,and more  is just more varied as to look and play at Newport."

There are a few elevated greens at Newport (9,13 and 18) so I guess you like these better than some of the perched greens at WFW with its couple of elevated greens.  How much more elevation change does Newport have over WFW?

Bunker placement?  What is superior about the bunker placement at Newport?  Only three greens don't have flanking bunkers at the front corners of greens.  One of these has water flanking the opening opposite a bunker.  Is the fairway bunkering superior at Newport?  If so, how?

Nearly all the holes run N-S or S-N, so what is so great about the routing at Newport?   The use of elevated greensites on three holes?

The different approaches?  What do you mean by this?  Never having been to Newport, what can you know about how the approaches play?

The bunker faces?  Now admittedly I like the rougher. less maintained look of the Newport faces but there is real artistry in the flashed faces at WFW that I love as well.  One is seaside and one is inland.  The bunker looks should differ in style.  I too like the seaside look better.  But does this make WFW dull?  I don't think so.  

You don't know how NCC plays and you've played WFW once in near US Open conditions.  Yet you make conclusive statements about playability.  Hmmmm...is that reasonable?

Thankfully, I am now done with this thread.  Your mind is made up and there is little left to discuss since you don't argue your case well.

[mike_malone]

 Wayne,

   Thanks for doing the heavy lifting. It is clear from your posts that Newport has more interesting architecture than WFW.You know this from being there. I could tell from TV.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The interplay between the elevation changes , the placement of bunkers, the routing, the different approaches,the bunker faces,and more  is just more varied as to look and play at Newport.

Mayday,

Are you aware that Newport is basically flat except for the land near the clubhouse ?

Would you tell me where the elevation changes are on holes  # 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 15, 16 and 17 ?

Do you know that Newport has some DEEP bunkers with sand faces, not unlike WFW ?

As to the routing, you don't cross any roads at WFW, you cross them twice at Newport.   How is Newport's routing superior to WFW's routing ?

Could you describe the appoaches at Newport and how they differ from the approaches at WFW ?

Have you read Charles Blair MacDonald's, "Scotland's Gift" ?

Specifically, page 295 ?

I doubt that you will answer any of these questions for two reasons.  
One, you don't know the answers.
Two, if you did they wouldn't support your premise.[/color]

   

[mike_malone]

 Pat,

    I'm color blind,so I can't read anything in green.

[Voytek Wilczak]

Mayday Malone,

If you admit that the green complexes at WFW are superior, world class, then you have to work your way backwards to see where you have to position yourself in order to best approach those greens.

One of WFW's traits are the shoulders in the foot pad of the greens.

Coming at those shoulders from the WRONG angle invites disaster.  Coming at those shoulders from the RIGHT angle invites reward.

So, based upon hole locations, relative to the shoulders, slopes and undulations, dictates from where you have to approach the green, which in turn dictates where you have to hit your drive.

That's strategy or tactics, and provides for highly interesting golf.

Just take # 6, that dinky little par 4 that was drivable.

A hole location cut into the extended leftside tongue of that green creates an entirely different strategy from a hole cut into the right center of the green behind the bunker and in front of the creek.

Some still prefer to play their approaches into the tongue, leaving themselves a daunting putt.   Others will fly it to that narrow plateau, taking their chances.   Some will try to drive as close to the green as possible, others will lay back, favoring one side of the fairway over the other, and then decide how best to approach the green.

In summary, it's anything BUT dull and uninteresting.

You have to look beyond U.S. Open preparations.
You have to view the golf course as the members have played it for the last 50 or more years, not the way it was prepared and played for four days in June, once in a decade.

GCA would be a much better site if we could get more posts like this from Patrick Mucci.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pat,

    I'm color blind,so I can't read anything in green.

Mayday,
That explains it all! You can't see the strategy of the green fairways and the putting surfaces of Winged Foot either!

[Garland Bayley]

Mayday Malone,

If you admit that the green complexes at WFW are superior, world class, then you have to work your way backwards to see where you have to position yourself in order to best approach those greens.

One of WFW's traits are the shoulders in the foot pad of the greens.

Coming at those shoulders from the WRONG angle invites disaster.  Coming at those shoulders from the RIGHT angle invites reward.

So, based upon hole locations, relative to the shoulders, slopes and undulations, dictates from where you have to approach the green, which in turn dictates where you have to hit your drive.

That's strategy or tactics, and provides for highly interesting golf.

Just take # 6, that dinky little par 4 that was drivable.

A hole location cut into the extended leftside tongue of that green creates an entirely different strategy from a hole cut into the right center of the green behind the bunker and in front of the creek.

Some still prefer to play their approaches into the tongue, leaving themselves a daunting putt.   Others will fly it to that narrow plateau, taking their chances.   Some will try to drive as close to the green as possible, others will lay back, favoring one side of the fairway over the other, and then decide how best to approach the green.

In summary, it's anything BUT dull and uninteresting.

You have to look beyond U.S. Open preparations.
You have to view the golf course as the members have played it for the last 50 or more years, not the way it was prepared and played for four days in June, once in a decade.

GCA would be a much better site if we could get more posts like this from Patrick Mucci.

Amen!

[JESII]

He opened the door for that one, didn't he Tommy?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Sully,
That he did. That he did!

Your from Philly, have you ever played this Fox Chase CC and seen some of that membership? I know the only thing I would have anything to do with that club is the halfway house gal, who strangley looks like the girl from Dead Like Me...Woo woo!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

I'm color blind,so I can't read anything in green.

If you're color blind, how would you know the print is green ?

You can't make blanket statements about golf courses, especially ones you've never seen, and then take a powder when questioned on the details and/or basis of your statements.

It diminishes your credibilty.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Credibility? What credibility?  

Opps! I better put that in Green before Mayday sees it and realizes I'm saying it!

Credibility? What credibility?

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