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Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« on: June 21, 2006, 11:04:50 AM »
The new U.S. Open champion speaks a lot of sense:

http://www.golfobserver.com/features/huggan/Ogilvy_062006.html

noonan

Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2006, 11:29:31 AM »
He gets it.

Allan Hutton

Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2006, 11:30:53 AM »
Good stuff, good stuff.

Lets hope he wins a few more, and keeps speaking about these issues.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2006, 11:32:41 AM »
It's all about me ...

"I had a lot of fun watching it," said Wie, who failed in her attempt to qualify for the Open. "I wish I had made it. ... There's always next year."[/i]
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Stu Grant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2006, 11:34:58 AM »
Outstanding article.  Thanks for posting Tim.  Let's hope tournament committees start listening to insightful comments such as these.  

I was a fan of Ogilvy previous to the US Open mainly because I love his golf swing.  Now that he's gotten more exposure in the last few days and I've been able to learn more about his personality, he might just be my favorite player out there.  

Mike_Cirba

Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2006, 11:54:52 AM »
Is Ogilvy Geoff Shackelford's long-lost cousin?   ;D

Forget about my favorite tour player!  I say Geoff Ogilvy for President!!

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2006, 12:04:04 PM »
Wow!
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2006, 12:17:27 PM »
Very simple response..he really really gets it..I really like this guy..my new poster child for all that is good in pro golf.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 12:17:49 PM by Michael Wharton-Palmer »

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2006, 12:28:45 PM »
Wow...now there is a professional that really "gets it".

That interview should be printed out, copied in mass amounts and be posted to every golf club's front door.  In fact, someone should hire a helicopter to drop copies of it all over the grounds of Augusta, the USGA/R & A headquarters, and every other club that will be hosting a major tourney.

Ran needs to contact him about a GCA sponsorship!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 12:29:22 PM by JSlonis »

Mike_Cirba

Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2006, 12:41:51 PM »
Ran needs to contact him about a GCA sponsorship!

Jamie,

Reading the interview I couldn't help but wonder if Mr. Ogilvy lurks around here.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2006, 12:42:36 PM »
Quote
"Look, I don't care, if people want to see us hacking out of long grass all the time, it's fine with me," he sighs. "I can go and get my fun somewhere else at another time. But the trouble is that everyone in golf follows us, the professionals. So it gets harder to find fun places to play. All of a sudden my dad is out there chopping around in six inch rough, losing his ball every time he misses the fairway and having no fun. Which makes no sense. We play a game that 99.9% of golfers have no hope of duplicating."

Yes, it is good to see a top player, now with real Major winning cred, express these thoughts.  It is probably like the overseas airline Captains who have to fly the by-the-book way for their job, and own experimental aircraft when they want to have some fun in the wild blue yonder.  

It is a fact of life that high level golf is going to continue to be goofy and purposely tricked up golf with narrow FWs into extreme rough that restricts anything but archery and sledgemall swinging golf.  Once they flatten the greens as someone said they were contemplating at some of WFs greens for next time, the last remaining bit of fun will also be gone.

I guess this gives insight of whether or when and where Ogilvy plays for "love or money".
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2006, 12:50:14 PM »
Really brilliant commentary from a young man.

Somebody set up a match between Ogilvy's dad and Huckster, Sr.

Mike

« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 12:50:41 PM by Bogey_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tom Huckaby

Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2006, 12:54:23 PM »
Mike - I have zero doubt they'd have a very good time, as would the sons/caddies.

 ;D

But the point remains a decent one, or at least I think so.  If my Dad won't have fun playing a course, it's a strike against it.  And this can occur due to site, set-up or design.  The main point Ogilivy makes which really is insightful is that making things difficult just in emulation of how the pros have to play is NOT a very good idea.

TH

Bob Jenkins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2006, 01:12:30 PM »

Tom,

Thank you for posting that interview. Great stuff! I agree with everyone else's comments and I am going home tonight to pull out my old persimmon driver and put it in my bag for a while.

Bob Jenkins

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2006, 01:17:25 PM »
Thanks for the link.  I understand that Mr. Ogilvy is no fan of Fazio's work.  For that alone he ought to receive emeritus status from this site.

"You had to hit it well for the ball to go anywhere. The difference between a good hit and a bad one with a driver was about 40 yards. With a modern driver you can hit the ball anywhere on the face really. The difference is only about five yards."

That might be true for the pros, but it certainly isn't for old hacks like me.  When I hit a ProV1 with my R7 in the enlarged sweet spot, I can get 260 - 270 yards out of the drive.  This happens maybe a couple of times per round.  Much more often is the contact somewhere in the face yielding drives of 220 to 240.

While I agree with Mr. Ogilvy regarding the rough and the obsession with protecting par, I don't know that width in conjunction with firmer putting surfaces would change the pros' approach that much.  Anyways, firmer greens are more a function of weather, soils, and green construction (I doubt that many superintendents set out to make greens soft and receptive for professional tournaments).  Sub-surface systems to control temperature and moisture are very exepensive and apparently limit the architect's ability to design with varying slopes.

For the club player, whatever advantage is gained by having wide fairways (often confused here with providing more options), more is lost with firm, unreceptive, difficult greens.  Shave the fringes, add slope, and deepen the bunkers and you have a recipe for 6-hour rounds.

What is good for the game may be very clear to Mr. Ogilvy and some on this site.  As one of my favorite politicians likes to point out, rolling back the advancements of the last 40 years is not progress.

Taking away the Pinnacle and the loaf on a stick from the 18 handicapper and making him play a Club Special and a Powerbilt Citation is not going to further his enjoyment of the game.  No matter how wide the fairways are- can he really utilize the suggested strategic options anyways?- firm up the greens and we make an already difficult game for most even more so.

Perhaps Mr. Ogilvy is speaking only about the state of professional golf.  Certainly he is entitled to his opinion.

However, somehow I've got to believe that the good of the game implies more than just what applies to a very small fraction of 1% of the golfing population.  BTW, I personally prefer short grass and firm grounds, and am generally indifferent on technology (R7 driver, Hogan Apex irons, Anser style Cameron putter).  I just don't see the issues as being so black and white on this matter, and would hate to have the USGA and R & A base its rules and policies solely on what the professional game prefers.

BTW2, I was rooting for Leftie and Monty.  It is nice to see a rising star, and apparantly, the winner had been named by some knowledgeable folks before the tournament started.  
   

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2006, 01:25:41 PM »
Geoff is an easy guy to root for.  His handling of his situation on 18 when his perfect drive wound up in that divot and his gutsy par from that lie speak volumes.  Its nice to know that some of the young  professional players care about the history of the game and the grounds on which they are played.

Cheers,
Brad
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 01:33:45 PM by Brad Swanson »

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2006, 01:26:22 PM »
Here's an article by Mike Clayton about he round he played with Ogilvy at RM using old equipment.

The Truth Behind the Power Game
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2006, 01:59:41 PM »
Mike Clayton makes a lot of sense.  Thanks for the link.

Is it possible to make a ball under the current size and weight rules that goes further without sacrificing accuracy at low clubhead speeds?  I am not scientist, but I am doubtful.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2006, 02:09:49 PM »
Geoff is an easy guy to root for.  His handling of his situation on 18 when his perfect drive wound up in that divot and his gutsy par from that lie speak volumes.  

Brad -

I was more impressed with the chip shot Geoff hit for his 3rd shot ... Miller said it was a tough break that his second shot didn't kick forward and stay on the putting surface, but to nip a shot off that tight lie with the false front under pressure and stick to 1.5 meters was the winning shot.

Mike
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2006, 02:52:55 PM »
I love it! The tour is the ultimate flop shot training ground!

Thanks Geoff!
 :D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2006, 02:52:57 PM »
Mike,
   His gutsy par certainly required great touch around the green, and I was impressed with that as well (maybe I shouldve said "gutsy par that followed" to be more clear).  However, had someone like Ferrie received that break in the fairway divot, it would've been game over.  Staying cool and in the moment after making 2 perfect swings and getting bad breaks on both was true grace under pressure and grinding at its finest.

Cheers,
Brad
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 03:06:56 PM by Brad Swanson »

Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2006, 02:56:33 PM »
Interesting words....It would be even more interesting to hear a USGA reply to their new champion's remarks ;)

Voytek Wilczak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2006, 03:02:04 PM »
>>It's hit it here you're good, hit it there you're f_ _ _ _ d.' Which is stupid<<

Geoff Ogilvy, 2006


I agree if "here vs there" means no options for the player.

It makes the game penal and boring.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2006, 03:22:01 PM »
On The Golf Channel the other day there was a playing lesson with the pro's that featured Geoff Ogilvy at Whisper Rock, and he had quite a few interesting things to say about how he plays golf( especially interesting for a feel golfer like me).
    Has Geoff talked at all about what happened with his caddy on Saturday, I am curious to know what that was about?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ogilvy on the State of Golf
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2006, 03:25:48 PM »
Quote
"If the first game of golf was played on some of the courses we play today, it wouldn't be a sport. It would never have been invented. People would play one round and ask themselves why they would ever play a second. It would be no fun."

They're doing that now. Courses closing, construction slowing down, participation numbers falling. I believe Ogilvy has put his finger on the problem: If the game isn't fun, who's going to want to play it?

Newer courses are always boasting about their "challenging" nature, but who are they attracting with heavy rough, dense woods, multiple water hazards and ubiquitous sand? I think firm greens would be an adequate substitute for many of those features. As it is, I was stunned at how many times Phil and others managed to hold the greens at WFW from 4-inch rough. Since that defense isn't working all that well anyway, why not try cutting the rough back a bit and firming up the greens? Your U.S. Open champ would vote for it.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 04:53:44 PM by Rick Shefchik »
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

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