Valhalla...Can you bash it and not sound like an elitist jerk...

[John Kavanaugh]

Tell me what is so bad about the course...Does deserve any cred for the Tiger/May PGA or was that all just happen stance..

[John Kavanaugh]

Please note:  The title while sounding insulting is simply a challenge to offer fair critique..If the "rabbit turd" bolders were mined from the site I'm not sure they are such a bad thing....Rabbit turd was not my description and one of only two actual problems I have heard from the critics on this site about the course.  The other being parallel fairways...

[Andy Troeger]

From what you can see on TV and what I remember of that (which isn't that much), I always liked the look of the course. I kind of wonder if most of the backlash came from the interest of the PGA in the course and the fact that it wasn't old enough or traditional enough to fit the mold for a major. Granted, in 2000 it was up against Augusta, Pebble, and the Old Course. There aren't many courses the PGA could pick to match up against that trio.

I just had the chance to play Sycamore Hills a few weeks ago and was really pleasantly surprised, I kind of think Valhalla would be the same scenario for me.

[Steve Lapper]

Paging one of the Pozarics....time to step up and ADD something to the mix

  or   ?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Steve Pozaric]

Paging one of the Pozarics....time to step up and ADD something to the mix

  or   ?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Tsk, tsk.  Steve, I must point out that the question posed was if you can bash it and not sound like an elitist jerk.  Were I to respond to you, I would not be responding to the question posed by Mr. Kavanaugh.  So, please if you could spare others from your misguided 3 year old vendetta and post in a positive fashion, I am sure the board would be most appreciative.

Now, to ADD something productive, one of the main complaints that could be made about the course is the significant movement in some of the greens.  I believe I have heard it described as being built in Jack's humpy bumpy phase.

[PThomas]

isn't Jack going back to do some work there?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

You know, a lot of people put Jack's stuff down, more specifically his work from the 80's, but I'll tell you this, at least it's got some strategy to it.

I always think of Bear Creek, not a single containment mound on the course with tons of strategy and really fun greens that work from the fairways. If Vahalla is anything like Bear Creek, then you won't see me putting my nose up to it. (in an elitist-jerkish way that is)

[Steve Lapper]

Tsk, tsk.  Steve, I must point out that the question posed was if you can bash it and not sound like an elitist jerk.  Were I to respond to you, I would not be responding to the question posed by Mr. Kavanaugh.  So, please if you could spare others from your misguided 3 year old vendetta and post in a positive fashion, I am sure the board would be most appreciative.

Now, to ADD something productive, one of the main complaints that could be made about the course is the significant movement in some of the greens.  I believe I have heard it described as being built in Jack's humpy bumpy phase.

Regardless of your misperceived intent to avoiding address, it is good to see you post something additive and productive to this forum...no vendetta here, just paging the pundits from Paducah to comment on something they are intimate with.

As for adding something "positive" to this forum, would you care to compare track record's of "adding" something to the GCA mix (without attempting further access to other's courses)?? Do you really want to go there? Do you want me to post other GCA scribe's IM's describing that? I think not.

Does one need to go any further than your relation's recent post's about US Open putting surfaces along with his inability to recognize the nature of poa annua vs. several simultaneous (and immediately previous) threads describing the inherent nature of the turf and it's resulting effects.

Glad to see you ADD....REALLY!

[Nick Pozaric]

Please note:  The title while sounding insulting is simply a challenge to offer fair critique..If the "rabbit turd" bolders were mined from the site I'm not sure they are such a bad thing....Rabbit turd was not my description and one of only two actual problems I have heard from the critics on this site about the course.  The other being parallel fairways...

Ill add a bit I guess.  First question is where are the parallel fairways?  15 and 16 run next to each other but there is a creek and trees between the holes and 15 is a favorite hole of many.  Nicklaus was in about a month ago to finalize the renovation plans.  I had the pleasure of following him around for the 3 hours he was there and listening to what he had to say, I also took about 150 pictures for the club.  We are renovating from the ground up 4 different greens complexes, bunkers and all, 2 of them will be moved in diferent locations adding length from the green end of the hole as opposed to the tee end of the hole.  All of the greens will be a little flatter by taking out the big bumps and mounds.  The main reason for this is for more hole locations.  Nicklaus said these greens when designed werent made to run as fast.  We are also adding a few fairway bunkers, greenside bunkers, and a couple of new tees stretching it out to around 7500 yards.  The main reason the players complained in 96 was how new the course was and not very mature.  After the 2000 tournament many of the players raved about how much better it was after the 4 years of aging, none of the seniors complained in 04 that I can think of, exept the rain

[Steve Pozaric]

Tsk, tsk.  Steve, I must point out that the question posed was if you can bash it and not sound like an elitist jerk.  Were I to respond to you, I would not be responding to the question posed by Mr. Kavanaugh.  So, please if you could spare others from your misguided 3 year old vendetta and post in a positive fashion, I am sure the board would be most appreciative.

Now, to ADD something productive, one of the main complaints that could be made about the course is the significant movement in some of the greens.  I believe I have heard it described as being built in Jack's humpy bumpy phase.

Regardless of your misperceived intent to avoiding address, it is good to see you post something additive and productive to this forum...no vendetta here, just paging the pundits from Paducah to comment on something they are intimate with.

As for adding something "positive" to this forum, would you care to compare track record's of "adding" something to the GCA mix (without attempting further access to other's courses)?? Do you really want to go there? Do you want me to post other GCA scribe's IM's describing that? I think not.

Does one need to go any further than your relation's recent post's about US Open putting surfaces along with his inability to recognize the nature of poa annua vs. several simultaneous (and immediately previous) threads describing the inherent nature of the turf and it's resulting effects.

Glad to see you ADD....REALLY!

Steve:

Glad to see the vendetta is over.  While "pundits from Paducah" has a nice sound, alas, I am from St. Louis and don't know that I have ever set foot in Paducah, which I am sure is a fine city.

[John Kavanaugh]

Please note:  The title while sounding insulting is simply a challenge to offer fair critique..If the "rabbit turd" bolders were mined from the site I'm not sure they are such a bad thing....Rabbit turd was not my description and one of only two actual problems I have heard from the critics on this site about the course.  The other being parallel fairways...

Ill add a bit I guess.  First question is where are the parallel fairways?  15 and 16 run next to each other but there is a creek and trees between the holes and 15 is a favorite hole of many.  

I'm not sure parallel fairways are a bad thing but I did manage to hit into 16 while playing 15...One question I do have...Do you think they will leave the grass punch bunker in front of 18 green..

The only complaint I have about the course is that I don't understand the use of big green fans when newer less intrusive technology exists..

[George Pazin]

Sorry, John, I forgot I was dealing with the newer, more easily offended John Kavanaugh.

I didn't bash Valhalla, I simply don't think it belongs in the same category as most of the other major courses. I also stated that Medinah and Oak Hill don't thrill me like Augusta (even the newest version). That doesn't mean I was bashing those courses. Heck, I even stated that for viewing purposes I preferred The Open to the US Open, because I enjoyed watching the unique rota courses more - does that mean I was bashing all the US Open courses?

The PGA at Valhalla certainly resulted in an entertaining finish, but so have a lot of other less-than-stellar courses. Pebble resulted in the biggest blowout in the history of golf, does that mean it's lacking?

Better tighten up the logic, big guy.

 

[John Kavanaugh]

George,

I simply want to know why you think Valhalla is not a worthy venue.  What led you to make such a conclusion when we already know for a fact it is capable of hosting a fantastic tournament.  Why do you call Valhalla "less-than-stellar" in your post above.  I would like to hear one argument above redanman told me so...

[Nick Pozaric]

Please note:  The title while sounding insulting is simply a challenge to offer fair critique..If the "rabbit turd" bolders were mined from the site I'm not sure they are such a bad thing....Rabbit turd was not my description and one of only two actual problems I have heard from the critics on this site about the course.  The other being parallel fairways...

Ill add a bit I guess.  First question is where are the parallel fairways?  15 and 16 run next to each other but there is a creek and trees between the holes and 15 is a favorite hole of many.  

I'm not sure parallel fairways are a bad thing but I did manage to hit into 16 while playing 15...One question I do have...Do you think they will leave the grass punch bunker in front of 18 green..

The only complaint I have about the course is that I don't understand the use of big green fans when newer less intrusive technology exists..

That must have been quite a shot to go to 16 from 15.  The grass bunker on 18 will be changed to a sand bunker.  The fans are used on 4 maybe 5 greens and after the renovations hopefully that # will only be one or two.  Also the fans are only in use for maybe a month or two during the bad times of the year.  What would you suggest in place of the fans?

[Bob Barriger]

My understanding is that they are closing the course late this summer or early fall and "Nicklaus" is coming in for some changes.  Greens may be redone, #1 and #10. The false front on #1 coming out and #10  being moved back about 30 yards closer to #11 tee. The dual fairway on #7 is going away,from what I hear. I will know more next Monday after our Member/Guest event at Wolf Run. I hear 4-6 greens will be moved, and redone but would not want to speculate until I have more solid info.

[Nick Pozaric]

My understanding is that they are closing the course late this summer or early fall and "Nicklaus" is coming in for some changes.  Greens may be redone, #1 and #10. The false front on #1 coming out and #10  being moved back about 30 yards closer to #11 tee. The dual fairway on #7 is going away,from what I hear. I will know more next Monday after our Member/Guest event at Wolf Run. I hear 4-6 greens will be moved, and redone but would not want to speculate until I have more solid info.

The only thing that is close to correct is the false front on 1 is becoming a bunker.  Close date is mid July

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