Liberty National opens...a future US Open course?

« **on:** June 17, 2006, 01:55:35 AM »

The prestige and uniqueness of the course has some city officials thinking a major PGA championship is not far away.

"This will be a destination golf course for ESPN and all the other major networks," said Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy. "Soon, the PGA Tour and the U.S Open will be coming here and the world can see how great a city Jersey City is."

For the rest of the story:

http://tinyurl.com/zbfrq

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-2/115037765965450.xml&coll=3

« **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2006, 02:16:50 AM »

Wow, I love how if you just use the word prestige it must be true. It sounds if Trump is doing their marketing.

The likelyhood of this course getting a PGA is like saying that Huckaby will ever get that hole in one.

« **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2006, 07:13:19 AM »

Actually, I think LN has a chance for the PGA because of the Tom Kite and Reebok connection. Then again, I thought Galloway National had a chance for the PGA because their original Director of Golf was a former president of the PGA and the owner was pushing for one. The PGA has shown a willingness to go with a newer course every now and then. As for the Open, as they say in New York, fageddaboutit.

« **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2006, 08:33:21 AM »

Steve, have you see the place yet? I think you should see it the course first before buying the hype.

« **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2006, 08:36:30 AM »

Steve:

A U.S. Open is not far away -- it's about 25 miles from there to Mamaroneck.

« **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2006, 09:12:02 AM »

Brad & Tom

I'm not buying the hype. I'm just an agent provacateur!!

Did the PGA choice of Valhalla have anything to do with the quality of the course? All that I'm suggesting is that sometimes "connections" have a role in site selection just as they do in the legal arena. Maybe Tom Kite and Paul Fireman can pull it off.

Steve

« **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2006, 09:57:06 AM »

There was actually about a 5 minute piece on Liberty National last night on "Live from the US Open" on the Golf Channel. They spoke with Bob Cupp, Tom Kite, and Paul Fireman regarding the property and their goals with the land.

From what I've seen, I'm much more excited to see nearby Bayonne.

I also just read in this week's Golfweek that there are plans to rotate the Barclay's Classic the next few years with plans to go to Westchester CC along with perhaps Liberty National and Trump National Bedminster.

« **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2006, 10:38:48 AM »

Steve:

Stop smelling the glue -- it won't happen unless one of the existing troika (WF / West, Shinnecock, Bethpage Black) gets bumped and I don't see that happening.

If the event does indeed come back to Jersey count on Baltusrol getting it before anything going to Jersey City.

If an event does go to Liberty National it will be the existing Barclas Classic as it might be rotated within the PGA Tour's FedEx Cup series starting in '07.

« **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2006, 11:15:05 AM »

I think the major championship rotation is WAY too heavily rotated in the NY/NJ area. We don't need another venue out there for a championship. They need to move the Open around the midwest.

« **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2006, 11:24:42 AM »

Steve

Wait until the 2020s for an Open in the Mid West. Erin Hills will be the frontrunner if the hype turns out to be true. The course is public and opens this summer.

Steve

« **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2006, 01:52:53 PM »

Steve Roth:

If you want to see majors then get use to the PGA being in the Midwest given their penchant for going there -- see Medinah with this year's event. The two major organizations are attemtping to preempt one another from certain courses and the northeast lies in the USGA'a radar screen.

Like I said before -- if another Open comes to the greater NY / NJ metro area it's more likely to be Baltusrol than Liberty National.

Steve Shaffer:

How bout we wait until Errion Hills officially opens before coronating the place as the next gem in American golf.

« **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2006, 05:15:24 PM »

Matt

I'm not coronating Erin Hills anything. The USGA has already awarded an event there.David Fay and other blue blazers have visited there. It's common knowledge they're looking at this place for the future. It's public. It's in the Mid West. Medinah and Whistling Straits are tied to the PGA. Olympia Fields may merit a return. Cog Hill is being doctored by Rees Jones and maybe they'll get it now that there is a rota for the Western Cialis whatever. Butler National is still a men only club. What else is there?

« **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2006, 09:46:35 PM »

Quote from: Brad Klein on June 17, 2006, 08:33:21 AM

Steve, have you see the place yet? I think you should see it the course first before buying the hype.

Brad,

I've seen it and it's a perfect venue for the 2009 Florida Open!!

PS.....I played Bayonne today 2X and it is the very REAL DEAL...what an adventure and creation....more later, but count me as a BIG, BIG Fan!!

BGC 9.0/ LN 1.5

« **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2006, 09:50:19 PM »

Steve Lapper, you have nailed it! I didn't want to say anything, lest I trump (!) anything I write, but it looked so out of place there. Though I did love the 1,000+ little trees they planted to block off the highway. And yes, Bayonne is great

« **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2006, 10:23:19 PM »

I have to agree with Brad and Lapper on this one...I saw it last fall. It's really artificial and penal. The greens are really small and have precious little contour or character.

There is no question it'll play HARD and the views are nice, but the LibNat team thinks that's what the USGA and PGA want...that and they keep harping on the draw being the stunning visual shots of trhe city and statue, but it doesnt compare to the four NY horsemen of the golf apocalypse...Winged Foot, Balty, Shinny and Bethpage.

« **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2006, 04:32:24 PM »

Matt

Re: Erin Hills

It looks like Ed Sherman of the Chicago Sun-Times has read my post above about Erin Hills:

http://tinyurl.com/s75m3

"My crystal ball isn't that good," Fay said when asked about Olympia Fields' chances. "We might have to say, `Olympia Fields, you had a successful U.S. Open, but we only have so many years.' We have a crowded dance floor now. It's a difficult thing to say no to a club that you know can host an Open. You don't want any bruised feelings."

Fay, though, knows he needs to bring an Open to the Midwest. The tournament is booked through 2013 and all of the sites are on the East and West coasts.

The possibilities are limited for Chicago. Medinah is the site of this year's PGA Championship and the 2012 Ryder Cup. Butler National won't get an Open with its all-male membership.

However, the USGA clearly is intrigued by the possibility of going to Erin Hills, which is 35 miles northwest of Milwaukee in the Kettle Moraine region.

The course was awarded the 2008 Women's Amateur Public Links before it even opened. The timing of that tournament is telling. It is played in June.

"It's played around the week of the U.S. Open," Fay said. "We want to get a feel for how the course looks and plays around that time of year."

« **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2006, 04:40:31 PM »

Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on June 19, 2006, 04:32:24 PM

Matt

Re: Erin Hills

It looks like Ed Sherman of the Chicago Sun-Times has read my post above about Erin Hills:

http://tinyurl.com/s75m3

"My crystal ball isn't that good," Fay said when asked about Olympia Fields' chances. "We might have to say, `Olympia Fields, you had a successful U.S. Open, but we only have so many years.' We have a crowded dance floor now. It's a difficult thing to say no to a club that you know can host an Open. You don't want any bruised feelings."

Fay, though, knows he needs to bring an Open to the Midwest. The tournament is booked through 2013 and all of the sites are on the East and West coasts.

The possibilities are limited for Chicago. Medinah is the site of this year's PGA Championship and the 2012 Ryder Cup. Butler National won't get an Open with its all-male membership.

However, the USGA clearly is intrigued by the possibility of going to Erin Hills, which is 35 miles northwest of Milwaukee in the Kettle Moraine region.

The course was awarded the 2008 Women's Amateur Public Links before it even opened. The timing of that tournament is telling. It is played in June.

"It's played around the week of the U.S. Open," Fay said. "We want to get a feel for how the course looks and plays around that time of year."

How many courses have hosted the Womens Amateur Public Links and the US Open? Midwest? Why not Crooked Stick? Maybe the Seniors are the appetizer in 2009.

« **Reply #17 on:** June 19, 2006, 07:04:52 PM »

Steve:

I think it would be prudent for people to actually have played a course (e.g. Erin Hills, et al) before one goes off the deep end in either direction.

The USGA clearly needs a Midwest location and that may indeed work out.

I spoke with a senior PGA official and he indicated that Baltusrol may indeed be THEIR site for future PGA Championships within the greater NY metro area.

Liberty National will not get a US Open because it is aligning itself with the PGA Tour and wants to host the existing Barclays event if it indeeds is rotated between Westchester CC and even Trump National in Jersey.

« **Reply #18 on:** June 19, 2006, 07:39:45 PM »

Quote from: Steve Lapper on June 17, 2006, 09:46:35 PM

Quote from: Brad Klein on June 17, 2006, 08:33:21 AM
Steve, have you see the place yet? I think you should see it the course first before buying the hype.

LN 1.5

yikes!!!

« **Reply #19 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:42:17 PM »

Isnt Hutchinson KS in the Midwest? ......Why wouldnt they play Prairie Dunes?

« **Reply #20 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:13:31 PM »

Matt

I don't have to play the course and I'm not going off the deep end here.I don't have to- I'm not David Fay nor am I on the USGA site selection committee.They've had Erin Hills on their radar for years.

As far as LN is concerned, I never hyped this course for a major. The Mayor of Jersey City did in the article. If it gets a PGA stop as part of the Barclays rota, it won't be the first 1.5 Doak scale rated course to get a tour event.

« **Reply #21 on:** June 20, 2006, 01:45:36 AM »

Quote from: Mark Arata on June 19, 2006, 08:42:17 PM

Isnt Hutchinson KS in the Midwest? ......Why wouldnt they play Prairie Dunes?

I can't see them going there because of the fact it is in Hutchinson, KS. No way for a city of that size to be able to handle the Open crowds

« **Reply #22 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:08:43 AM »

Steve:

Just because the USGA is hot to trot about Errin Hills doesn't mean that much to me when the same organization was hot to trot about such other architectural gems like Hazeltine National and more recently with Torrey Pines.

I simply opined that waiting for the actual course to open so that on-site playing reviews can happen would be best for all involved.

« **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:32:08 AM »

Steve Lapper,

I enjoyed your excellent review of Bayonne on the other thread which is consistent with your "9.0" rating. Would you please similarly support your "1.5" rating for Liberty National? Thanks.

Mike

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