Riverdale Dunes--Conditioning

[Troy Alderson]

Tim,

I would not "blame" the supt here.  They may be at fault but most if not all supts want firm and fast.  Unfortunately owners and golfers think that green is healthy and if the budget does not allow for hand watering, the supt must "overwater" with the system.  This is why I feel the first priority of the golf industry is to get the word out about the benfits of firm and fast.  Kirk is dead on about golfers preferring to play on wet green turf.

I do think that bent is a good turf for that area, so that is not an issue.  With a gravel soil there should be good natural drainage.  If it does not exist, then the turf has been overwatered and overfertilized over the years creating excessive thatch and destroying the natural drainage as Tom D. said.  FYI, I have yet to fertilize the fairways and roughs this year and the golf course is green.  I still have a bad thatch problem from overwatering and overfertilizing from previous supts, but am trying to eliminate it.

Firm and fast is a subjective term and we need to recognize that the average golfers does not understand the concept and a softer course plays to their poor game.  Golf courses have been catered to the average golfer, that is why IMHO we do not see average golf courses on the top 100 lists.

The word must get out to the masses in order for change how golf courses are maintained.  By adopting fast and firm playing conditions, maintenance cost can decrease and the cost to play golf will decrease to a level easily afforded by the average golfer like me.

Troy

[Craig Sweet]

Troy, what sort of rough are you fertilizing?  Are these natural areas where native grasses are growing.....blue grass rough...??

Like you, we haven't fertilized the fairways yet....and keeping up with the rough is beginning to be a joke...record rain in April...record heat in May and record rain now in June....

[Troy Alderson]

Craig,

I am talking about the maintained rough at 2 inches.  I have a 10 month growing season and typically would apply 1N in the spring and in the fall.  I am extremely short staffed this year and cannot afford to fertilize something that will grow too fast for us to keep up with.

Read Jim Arthur's Practical Greenkeeping, great info about traditional greenkeeping practices.

Troy

[Craig Sweet]

Troy...slow growing rough has not a been a problem for us this year....  Damn rain and heat...

I enjoyed Jim Arthur's knowledge, though I do not own the book. I have read several of his writings at the BIGGA site....back a year ago there was an interesting thread on here about his ideas concerning poa annua

[Adam_Jessie]

A lot of the people on this site are not taking into account all of the things that D'Ann Kimbrel and her staff are having to work with at RD. This is not a private club as much as it should to be, it is not. It is a wonderful public county owned course that can hold its own against any other courses in Colorado as far as conditioning is concerned.  I am sure that most people who live in CO. would agree that it is probably on of the best values of any course the state (Where else can you play a tom doak design for under 50 bucks?)

Keep in mind that RD is saddled with excessive rounds, and a grossly below average budget. Lets give credit where it is due. A lot of non superintendents / assistants on this site have no idea the amount of work/ money that it takes to keep a poa / bent course course on the edge, with 200+ rounds a day being pumped through.

I am sure that many supt's will agree that 400K does not go very far on a golf course, and certainly does not allow for a lot of handwatering.

Adam Jessie
Asst. Superintendent
Shinnecock Hills Golf Club

[Ron Farris]

I am sure that most people who live in CO. would agree that it is probably on of the best values of any course the state (Where else can you play a tom doak design for under 50 bucks?)

Adam- check their website.  The course was designed by Pete & Perry Dye.  Tom was on the crew and I know for a fact that he had input on the golf course during construction.  I was unaware that he was also the designer.  

I have no doubt that Tom will go down as the greatest golf course designer of our time and perhaps all-time.

[Adam_Jessie]

Ron, I was on staff with the grounds crew for about 3 years at RD. Before moving on. It is one heck of a deal. From what Mr. Doak has told me, he took over the design after the first hole. Which makes since because there is a big difference between that and the rest of them with the exception of 15 which was not his idea.  

Adam Jessie

[Tom_Doak]

Adam:  I've never said I designed Riverdale Dunes (check The Confidential Guide), but I did have a lot of input on it.

Perry Dye did the routing plan for the course with his dad's input, but since it was dead flat ground to start with, that had less to do than normal with the way the holes play today.

David Postlethwait moved the bulk earth, basically building up the fairways by cutting the drainage areas gutter-style between the holes.  He roughed in some greens and tees but they were very plain.  When we started shaping the next spring, our instructions from Perry were simply to jazz up the features while staying ahead of the irrigation.  Since the irrigation crew was in the middle of the first fairway, we didn't do much on #1 and we started on #2.

The crew for construction was myself, John Reidinger who was the project manager, Jim Urbina and Jim Felten.  John Harbottle was there for a little while but broke his foot during the construction project and moved to the office.  Perry spent most of his time that summer at Glenmoor nearer to his home, so I was authorized to make design changes on the fly.  Pete Dye came in twice that summer for a couple of days each time; the holes he had the most input on were #7, #8, #10 and #12.

Urbina and I did most of the greens contouring and a lot of the bunkers, and once I got more comfortable out there, I started moving tees (to create diagonal carries over the "gutters") and, later, greens (#9) and fairways (#16) to take more advantage of the highs and lows which had been created on the site.  

Jim Felten wanted to design a hole by himself and Perry assigned him #15, although we convinced him to take out a bunker he'd shaped in the left-center of the green along the bulkhead.