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Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2006, 11:22:37 AM »
John,
Couldn't be a better word for it!

I'll relate the full story to you another time, off-line.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2006, 11:23:48 AM »
I have to go for a few hours.  Sorry I can't participate right now.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2006, 11:24:35 AM »
John -

Is it worse on here in your view to be a member of a club with a Fazio course, or a Rees Jones course?  Which would be worse on the asshole/ignoramus scales?

 

This discussion and denigration of perfectly competent architects is beneath contempt.

Bob

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2006, 11:35:47 AM »
Now that I have completely reverted to my country roots, and am back living in the forests of the great Northwest, I wish to be immediately considered for Hillbilly Tour Card membership.  Y'all can play with me at these great new courses.

John,

Your application is duly noted and will be considered.  The fact that both of your parents attended college - Cornell no less, is a stumbling block quite frankly.  Bear in mind that there are only 6 tour cards outstanding, if my math is correct.  

Stay tuned.

Mike
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 11:41:40 AM by Bogey_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2006, 11:43:42 AM »
This discussion and denigration of perfectly competent architects is beneath contempt.

Bob

Bob,
Desmond Muirhead once profoundly told me of the exact credentials and competency of some of these--without naming names here--"architects."

In fact, Forrest Richardson might want to add to it because I know he got to experience a diatribe or two--like I did--in regards to all of it.

It was quite hilarious. It was also very old school and British and for the most, quite memorable.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2006, 11:45:15 AM »
I guess here I'm trying to make the point that one man's asshole is another man's best friend.  It depends on your perspective.

Words to live by.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2006, 12:02:06 PM »
This is why I consider the best portion of this website--the honesty and passion of a John Cullum, John Kirk, John Kavanaugh, Geoffrey Childs, all who exude exhuberance and honesty and moral character of what all men should base their lives on. I'd could spend a lifetime golfing with all of you, knowing that its that character, each one different from completely different backgrounds that completely makes my point.

It's why I also consider you guys more then aquaintences. More like GREAT, and I mean this, GREAT friends.

Thanks


John Goodman

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2006, 12:20:16 PM »
John -

Is it worse on here in your view to be a member of a club with a Fazio course, or a Rees Jones course?  Which would be worse on the asshole/ignoramus scales?

 

This discussion and denigration of perfectly competent architects is beneath contempt.

Bob

I belong to a R. Jones course and think it's a pretty dang good -

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2006, 01:03:05 PM »
Wayne,

I'm not trying to light a fire...I'm just sick of being stereotyped because I belong to a Fazio course.  I could possibly be the only member of a Fazio course on this site that openly posts that fact.  I happen to seem to get off on conflict..or as my son says drama...so why I stick around is questionable at best.  Recently The Alotian decided to not allow Golfweek raters on property while inviting Golf Digest...I'm sure it can be directly related back to this site.  I wonder if their asshole roster is yet full because I would love to play that place...Of course when assholes start to reciprocate you open a whole new can of worms.

I'm a member at Pine Hill and have openly posted that fact a number of times. I've also been called an asshole a number of times . . .I never really considered the connection until now ;D  ;D ;)

-Ted

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2006, 01:07:20 PM »
John,

I am in the opposite boat.

As you know, I belong to an old Colt / Alison that has hosted several PGA Tournaments including a major (And is right now finishing kicking the crap out of the women at the Michigan Women's Mid Am - a +2 shot 98 yesterday in round 1).

If I would just leave it at that and not keep defending Fazio and Rees, while taking shots at nice guys like Hills and at "Made" courses, I might be thought of better.  ;)

At face value, IMO the club you belong to really can say something about you.  We had a discussion in our locker room last night, as several of the clubs in Michigan are really struggling.  I suspect that Michigan will lose three private courses over the next two years.  One of them will probably be one of the Jewish clubs.  

The general perspective of the Jewish clubs in our area is that Knollwood is a starter club for guys moving up in the world, Tam O' Shanter is for guys who have made it, Franklin Hills is for guys whose parents or grandparents made it.  With our local economy being as bad as it is, all three clubs are fairly comparably priced (And Knollwood and Tam are very comparable golf courses - Franklin is a big step up), which club you chose to join would definitely say something to me about where you feel you are in the world and where you think you would be the best fit.
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2006, 03:55:56 PM »
I guess my personal history with club memberships (none) can be summed up by that famous quote from Graucho Marx. ;)

Cheers,
Brad

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2006, 04:53:36 PM »
John

Tim Weiman openly wrote about the Fazio course he held membership in as does crusty Jim Lewis.

Why would you be so defensive and care what others, even on GCA thinks about your course if you enjoy it and you have friendly games and competitions?  Victoria National is a terrific golf course that most would kill (figuratively) to play regularly.

Judge each man by his actions, how he treats friends and family and how he contributes to his community rather then how many and which clubs he can join.

Gib_Papazian

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2006, 05:34:29 PM »
Gentlemen,

Like minded people tend to congregate and by extention, attract more of the same.

So, in reality, the club you join often *does* say something about you, just as one can make assumptions based on the car you drive, the clothes you wear or in San Francisco: from which rear pocket you hang your hankerchief.

Bluebloods tend to hang together - SFGC, Cypress, Burlingame, NGLA, Swinley Forest etc. There is also a very good reason for the term "Jewish Club."

And there is nothing wrong with being fingered as "nuevo rich." It is a heck of a lot better than being "nuevo poor."  

In every club, there is inevitably a minority who see things a bit differently than the mainstream - the members who do not *fit* seamlessly into the overall social tone of the club.

Generalities are dangerous, but not completely inaccurate. Not all Frenchmen as assh*les, but it has been my experience this is true. I'm sure somewhere in Paris is a Frog I would not want to strangle within ten seconds of our introduction - but it has not happened yet.

In my experience, Aronomink is the France of golf clubs, but that  does not mean everybody is like that, just 100% of the snots I met that day.

Not all members of a Fazio club are empty-headed, social climbing, status hungry, nuevo-rich dullards . . . . Barny is in the top ten most interesting and thoughtful people I've met. But even Jakab admits he is a fish out of water in his corner of the world.

Growing up, the average guy at Olympic drank Irish whiskey, was raised in San Francisco and Catholic. Now, the texure of the club has changed and the longtime members sporting a "fog tan" are almost an anachonism .  .  . . today, our average "newer member" smokes a cigar on the course, rides a cart and acts like the place is a resort course or CCFAD.

Guys like the Armenian or Joel are so far afield of the average  member, it is almost impossible to have a cogent discussion about the golf courses because they don't know the history of their own club and don't care.

All that stated, on a micro scale, the club where you hang your  spikes tells nothing, on a macro scale, quite a bit.    

« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 03:06:48 AM by Gib Papazian »

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2006, 05:39:26 PM »
Gee Barney, I dunno.  The only other member I met while enjoying your company at Victoria National was that nice young man in the cart that asked to play through on the 16th tee.  Hmmmmmmmm.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Gib_Papazian

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2006, 05:41:05 PM »
Redanman,

Olympic is nowhere near as friendly and convivial a place as a generation ago. I promise you, the crack in the grillroom has sank to the level of CCFAD bozos on a business boondoggle.

We have lost our soul.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2006, 05:47:41 PM »
I've read a lot of surprising things on here, but maybe the most surprising thing in my 6 years is that JakaB cares what other people think about him.

Say it ain't so, John.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2006, 06:11:04 PM »
Barny is in the top ten most interesting and thoughtful people I've met. But even Jakab admits he is a fish out of water in his corner of the world.

the longtime members sporting a "fog tan" are almost an anachonism .  .  . .

Gib,

Two questions: Where would Barney fit in and what is a "fog tan"?

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2006, 06:37:45 PM »
Hey, speaking of clubs, does anyone know the membership policy for the Carthage Club? Kinda hopin'...it's open. Plus:
BYOB
Skin-out anytime -- but no shirts out. ;)

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2006, 09:19:02 PM »
I guess here I'm trying to make the point that one man's asshole is another man's best friend.  It depends on your perspective.

Words to live by.

Gee...did I really write that?  That didn't quite come out right, and now that I'm thinking about what must be my greatest journalistic faux pas ever, I can't stop laughing.  That is the funniest shit ever.  I tried to make a serious post.  Oh dear.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2006, 09:28:24 PM »
John Kirk

I missed that the first time around myself, and now I am cracking up as well.  LOL ;D ;D

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2006, 09:31:40 PM »
Let's see...my former club's membership was once described in Philadelphia Magazine as "a cross between The Sopranos and Animal House."



Funny - I used to be a Philly area member of a club just like that.  Between idiots throwing things at each other to harassing the waitresses to trying to crash private parties to get free booze, this was the place to go.  Not surprisingly, they're  seriously hurting for members.

Thank gawd for family-oriented places like French Creek and others.  By family-oriented, I mean a place where you can safely take your spouse, kids, or parents, and be proud.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2006, 09:43:01 PM »

What can you tell about a guy based on what clubs he belongs....Just to keep this on topic...or where he plays...


About as much as you can tell about a book by its cover

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2006, 12:21:59 AM »
John, your syntax may not have been perfect but your golf today was close!  It was a good win for Team Erdmann-Kirk.

Jason McNamara

Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2006, 03:07:29 AM »

I belong to a R. Jones course and think it's a pretty dang good -

I will cheerfully acknowledge the very same.  I play at a Rees course (ack!), it's in Houston (Ack!!), and it's recently hosted the USGA (ACK!!!).

And yet somehow, I sure do enjoy the hell out of it.

I didn't want to join a club that was over-crowded (weekend lottery?), I wanted just golf, and I was never going to get into the established social-page clubs in Houston (wouldn't fit anyway).  I consider myself fortunate to get what I do have, a very enjoyable course (with a great core group of members; they make the club).

Oh, and there's no houses, and it's easily walkable.  OK, so in July-August I will ride sometimes.*  As Newsweek once opined, if Dante had ever walked across a Houston parking lot in August, he'd have had to invent another level of hell.   :)

Jason

* I have in the past, though we have just brought in some push carts, which I'm looking fwd to trying.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does the club make the man...
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2006, 03:53:38 AM »
.... and it's easily walkable.  OK, so in July-August I will ride sometimes.*  As Newsweek once opined, if Dante had ever walked across a Houston parking lot in August, he'd have had to invent another level of hell.   :)

Jason

* I have in the past, though we have just brought in some push carts, which I'm looking fwd to trying.

Jason

get one of those umbrella fixing attachments for your push cart (we call them buggies in Australia) and you will be able to walk in the shade in July and August.  Just attach the brolly to the push cart and leave it there, walking in the shade as you go.  Your playing partners will laugh at you on the front nine, but will be jealous on the second nine.  Plus, a little less sun damage to your skin from having your 'brolly' up.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)