[Gregg Vincent]

Westchester CC had a great showing last week. Although they had a bunch of rain leading in to the tournament the course held up well and produced a great champion. Ten under par wins and about 20 players were able to break par with one of the years strongest fields. The course and the set up once again drew positive reviews from the players.

All of this from 6830 yards.

Next year the event will be moving to an August time slot with the revamp of the tour schedule. With history as our guide this could be the end of a great run for WCC. The Westchester Classic used to be played in August and the winning scores were much lower. The summer heat and humidity in the metropolitan area made it very difficult to grow rough and combined with firm and fast conditions left the West course defenseless.

I suppose being included in the new year end series is good for the event, but the conditioning factors are sure to play a role.

Is Westchester a good tour course in early June and just too short in August?

Gregg

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Gregg -

You pretty much nailed the weather conditions.

The only variables would be to overwater the fairways in August, leave the rough dormant so that the balls roll to the tree line, and hope to maintain firm greens without crossing the line into "The Shinny Effect".

The grass finally blossoms in June, and my guess is that the set-up is designed as a warm-up for the Open in even years to acclimatize and attract the players.

Bob Gilder played flawlessly when he torched the course for his victory.  A 261 or -23 including a double eagle on #18 where a plaque commemorates his achievement.

Lowest score still wins

[Glenn Spencer]

Great question. I sure hope not, this is one of the very few watchable tournaments that are left for me. I would think that they would be able to get something done as far as the rough, but you never know. My guess is that 23 was more of an aberration than anything. Lets hope so.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

266-274 is usually the number around that time of year...

Gilder had one of those really special weeks.  I know as I caddied for someone in the field that week.

JWK

[tomgoutman]

This might be OT but I've played Westchester a lot over the years, as well as some of it's neighbours (Winged Foot, Quaker Ridge) and could never understand why Westchester is not rated in anyone's top 100 (not that it's important). Any thoughts?

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom,
I think you've already answered your question - It sits close to other great courses.

It'd probably be much higher ranked if it were in another city without such great courses.

Philly, too, has such great courses that some that deserve recognition (Lancaster CC, for example) sometimes don't get it.  Granted, Lancaster is in Golfweek's top 100 classic, but a lot of folks don't know about it.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Tomgoutmant;

Top answer your question about Westchester's inclusion to a Top 100 list, IMHO -

Please don't misinterpret me, I like the golf course, and will always accept an invitation to play there.  The strength of the golf course is how Travis created some greens that are very difficult to get the ball close on some locations.  

The reasons that Westchester C.C. does not rate in the Top 100 on lists are below (The holes # below are as the PGA TOUR plays them as the nines are flipped for members):

To me, it all boils down to Resistance to Scoring for the A player:

1) The course is only truly difficult when the rough is up.  We also had 20mph winds all weekend which is why -10 was the winning score.  Given calmer conditions, and -15 to -18 was definitely in the realm of possibilities.
2) Too many short par 4's:  #10, #7, #3, #17 come to mind - Granted, there are options and #7 is a quirkly little devil...
3) The Par 5's are reachable in two which = fun, but not staunch defenders of par.
4) The Par 3's are not memorable outside of #16 which is difficult due to its length.  Yes, #14 had a very cute placement up front tucked behind a bunker on a downhill/downwind shot on Sunday.  Off all of the par 3's, #14 is my favorite becuase of its siting, but #1 is a killer bogey to start the round.

There are many challenging holes at Westchester that often score well on the TOUR stats as most difficult holes lists, most notably #8 and #12 (A converted par 5 to a 4), but this course is frequently a tale of two cities (Best of times/Worst of times).

I am not saying that:  "She doesn't sweat much for a fat girl."  I can think of WFW, QR, WFE, Siwanoy and Fenway that are more challenging, fun to play, and have a better balance than does Westchester.  Those five set the bar pretty high when it comes to examining a Top 100 list.

That said, for the scratch to 25 handicap, most people will enjoy playing there no matter where or if it makes someone's Top 100 list.

JWK

 

[Dan Herrmann]

James,
Thanks for the great criticism.  That's just the type of gem post that GCA was meant to provide.

[Matt_Ward]

James:

Even under the best of weather conditions -- you won't see
-15 to -18 at Westchester CC. Yes, I agree with the rough being a main factor and no doubt the manner by which the greens are protected by internal ridges / subsections and fall-offs makes for some fun pin placements.

The issue for a later date will be the density of the rough. The long summer months can cause it to get a bit thinner in many spots.

One last thing -- Siwanoy & Fenway are both fine courses but it's a bit premature to toss Westchester under the bus -- the architectural rigor imbued by Walter Travis is certainly still tough to beat.

One other thing -- check the pedigree of the champions who have won there. As good as any regular tour event.

P.S. The par-3 14 is often underrated and I particularly think the same can be said of the par-4 13th. Candidly, the entire back nine is very well done.

[mark chalfant]

 I believe  WCC  is  c.  #90 on Golfweeks  classical  list. It is
a neat routing with a superb variety of medium and long par fours. The fifth and ninth are good and very scenic par fives.
many charming/ feisty   Travis greens

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

James:

Even under the best of weather conditions -- you won't see
-15 to -18 at Westchester CC. Yes, I agree with the rough being a main factor and no doubt the manner by which the greens are protected by internal ridges / subsections and fall-offs makes for some fun pin placements.

The issue for a later date will be the density of the rough. The long summer months can cause it to get a bit thinner in many spots.

One last thing -- Siwanoy & Fenway are both fine courses but it's a bit premature to toss Westchester under the bus -- the architectural rigor imbued by Walter Travis is certainly still tough to beat.

One other thing -- check the pedigree of the champions who have won there. As good as any regular tour event.

P.S. The par-3 14 is often underrated and I particularly think the same can be said of the par-4 13th. Candidly, the entire back nine is very well done.

Matt -

-15 to -18 used to regularly win at Westchester.  Look at the winners and their scores on PGA Tour.com.  Gilder's -23 was an abberation, but without the uncommon wind pushing out the rain this past weekend, 5 additional birdies were there to be had in my opinion.  We both agree that the August heat will wilt that June rough, and the course will play easier.  All of this conjecture is MHO, and we'll see what happens next year.

In regards to throwing Westchester under the bus, from an architectural standpoint, Fenway is a very interesting course, and Siwanoy is well regarded as well.  I'm not denigrating W.C.C., merely pointing out my preferences.

Westchester has produced a decent list of champions, but the tournament has lost a bit of cache partly due to 3 U.S. Opens and a PGA Championship in the NYC Metropolitan area in the last five years.

Overall, I stand by my initial post and restate that:


"Please don't misinterpret me, I like the golf course, and will always accept an invitation to play there."

"That said, for the scratch to 25 handicap, most people will enjoy playing there no matter where or if it makes someone's Top 100 list."

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