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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wie 3, Pressel 0
« on: June 11, 2006, 09:05:52 PM »
Just keeping the stats.

From shivas on the "I used to be about Wie and the Open" thread.

"Pressel finished +9 and Creamer +4.  Contrary to what people want, there simply IS NO rivalry.  Wie's only rivals right now are 3 LPGA Hall of Famers in the primes of their careers....and that's only because she can't putt...otherwise they would not even be rivals."

Jordan, he's criticizing your gal. What do you have to say?

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2006, 09:22:05 PM »
I'm interested to see when Wie finally breaks through.  So I watch.  Then I see Peanut floating 9-woods in where Wie hits wedges and it cements the fact that some of the so-called "stars" are nowhere close to having Wie's game.

Then I remember that I beat Tony Janu for the caddie tournament one year with a +4 round of 77.  Tony had/has more talent in his spare rainsuit than I have in my whole body.  He drove to within 65 yards of the 400 yard 15th, but failed to pick up a stroke when I got up and down for par from about 30 yards.  He DROVE 16 and three-putted from the front collar for par.  Somehow I parred the last four by making 8-13' putts each time to hold him off.

Two people can shoot similar scores even when they have a vastly different skill level.

When Wie plays like crap - gets off to a bad start the first day, misses a slew of wedge shots, and lips out a bunch of 3 and 4-footers - she finishes in the Top 5.

When Pak plays like crap she misses the cut, like she did last year.

I don't know if Wie will ever win 20 Majors.  I don't know if she'll ever win 5.  But dang, she must be good to always be in the hunt at 16 whether or not she plays well.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2006, 09:35:08 PM »
Ms. Pressel is a tiny thing, isn't she??? does she hti it far enough???
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2006, 11:02:08 PM »
Wie plays a minimized game.  She basically shoots the worst score she can shoot every day.

ShivaS

That may be a little exaggerated as everyone leaves shots "out there" but I get your drift. She's posting a decent score even though she may not be playing at her full potential.

Sorenstam took the LPGA to another level but Wie's taking it even a step further. At 16 years of age and not even on the tour full-time she's doing things that even Jack / Tiger weren't doing - ie: being at the Top of a Leaderboard in a Major (OK the depth of each Tours aren't comparable) but just being there is important for her development as a golfer.

She will win a string of Majors and how many is anyone's guess ? it's just a matter of when. Just like most people used to do with Nicklaus and now do with Woods.....when you check the Leaderboard whose name do you check to see who's there or thereabouts ?

She's having that impact already which is amazing.



Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2006, 11:29:40 PM »
If her putting gets better, and she learns to win, she's going to be almost unbeatable out there.  If she's still failing to close out in five years time, there might be cause for concern, but she is 16, and she's contending in almost every she plays in against the best in the world.  

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2006, 11:41:48 PM »
Shivas,

You understand how Wilt came to struggle with the free throws don't you? No one ever let Michelle run to the other side of the hole and stuff the putt in as it came by. I think Shack may be a better example.

That said, I must warn you all that my threads Wie N, Pressel 0 have been deleted by the powers that be, even in the midst of my attempting to post to it. Now get back on the other thread where you all belong.
:)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Glenn Spencer

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2006, 11:45:23 PM »
Here's my WORST case scenario for her over her career:

she never gets any good at the short game, so she starts pressing with the long game (gee, how would I know anything about that?? :o ::) :'( >:( )...

...and as a direct result...

...she only wins 8-12 majors out there over 25 years instead of the 30+ she's capable of winning if she learns how to chip and putt like a typical Top 30 LPGA Tour player.

Did anyone here ever think that her short game is the reason they want her on the PGA Tour -- to see the best?  Maybe her dad and her coaches realize that she needs help, and where better to get it than to play the Tour and watch the best?


Yes, I have said this repeatedly. If you gave me a $1000 a putt to watch Pat Hurst, I could only watch for a few minutes. In all seriousness, can someone supply us with a putting performance from someone with the lead or within 2 strokes all weekend putted like that. I have never seen so many putts missed before they were hit, no I know what people are thinking when I am standing over a 15-footer.

Jordan Wall

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2006, 12:25:03 AM »
This is bs.

How many tournaments has Creamer won and how many has Wie?
I mean pro tournaments...

Yea, I think Creamer wins.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 12:25:26 AM by Jordan Wall »

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2006, 12:45:59 AM »
I notice you've jumped off the Pressel wagon Jordan...

In the last six majors, Wie has finished T14-2-T23-T3-T3-T5.  Creamer has finished T19-T3-T19-T15-T24-T49.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 12:56:20 AM by Chris Kane »

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2006, 01:07:14 AM »
I think its worth noting that the two golfers that figured out how to get into the playoff were Pak and Webb...two veterans with several majors beyween them....everyone else....plain and simple did not get it done.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2006, 01:13:54 AM »
By the way...Wie hit 58 greens in regulation...the "leaders" hit 53, except for one "leader" who only hit 49 greens in regulation.

They had fewer putts than Wie, but they hit fewer greens....so what does this tell you?  
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2006, 01:29:47 AM »
This is bs.

How many tournaments has Creamer won and how many has Wie?
I mean pro tournaments...

Yea, I think Creamer wins.

Jordan

I'd be happy to wager a bet as to whether Wie will stack up more Tournament victories over her pro career v Creamer (or Pressel) including Majors.

Do you care to partake ?

Jim Nugent

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2006, 01:58:38 AM »
Here are some more bets for you Jordan.  I say Wie wins her first LPGA tournament at an earlier age than Creamer did.  Second bet: Wie wins her first LPGA major at an earlier age than Creamer does.   Third bet: Wie makes at least one cut on the PGA tour, while Creamer makes none.  


TEPaul

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2006, 08:15:21 AM »
I'm very amused to read some of these endless Michelle Wie threads on here as contributors discuss and debate and struggle to define and explain and compare Wie and her game.

Face it fellas, the huge fascination with Michelle Wie by thousands upon thousands of fans, even historians, both men and women is because she is basically the first female golfer EVER to hit the ball in every way no different at all from a top flight MALE prodigy who is attempting to play on Men's PGA Tours---the highest level of golf.

Consequently, the true fascination with Wie is she is the first female in golf's history to so completely skew the line on physical differences relating to ball striking between a man and a woman in the world of top flight male golf as to make it virtually unrecognizable or indistinguishable.

Basically, that has never happened before Michelle Wie came along! To some men that probably comes across as something of a threat they feel unable to at first come to grips with and admit. ;)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 08:16:59 AM by TEPaul »

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2006, 08:23:55 AM »
I notice you've jumped off the Pressel wagon Jordan...


that's ok if he has...Creamer is cuter ;)...

199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Jim Nugent

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2006, 08:27:55 AM »

Face it fellas, the huge fascination with Michelle Wie by thousands upon thousands of fans, even historians, both men and women is because she is basically the first female golfer EVER to hit the ball in every way no different at all from a top flight MALE prodigy who is attempting to play on Men's PGA Tours---the highest level of golf.

Consequently, the true fascination with Wie is she is the first female in golf's history to so completely skew the line on physical differences relating to ball striking between a man and a woman in the world of top flight male golf as to make it virtually unrecognizable or indistinguishable.

Basically, that has never happened before Michelle Wie came along! To some men that probably comes across as something of a threat they feel unable to at first come to grips with and admit. ;)

You're right Tom.  It goes further than golf, though.  She's the first woman I know of who can compete with top men athletes in any major sport.

When rj says she is not an elite athlete, I have to laugh, cry, vomit, all the above.  Well, not vomit.  She is making history, though, and I wonder how he and the others cannot see that.

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2006, 08:45:31 AM »
that's ok if he has...Creamer is cuter ;)...

I concur!

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2006, 08:49:15 AM »
that's ok if he has...Creamer is cuter ;)...

I concur!

as Jordan gets older, I'll expect him to move up to being a Natalie fan
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Glenn Spencer

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2006, 09:06:19 AM »
that's ok if he has...Creamer is cuter ;)...

I concur!

as Jordan gets older, I'll expect him to move up to being a Natalie fan

I expect that as well.

Glenn Spencer

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2006, 09:08:50 AM »
I think its worth noting that the two golfers that figured out how to get into the playoff were Pak and Webb...two veterans with several majors beyween them....everyone else....plain and simple did not get it done.

Oh, experience is so necessary to win a major championship. It is so key to being there at the end. Pleeeeease. Webb missed a 4-footer on 17. She waved at it. Pak 3-putts the last hole from 20 feet. Veterans? Were you really watching the same tournament I was?

Glenn Spencer

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2006, 09:26:52 AM »
She needs to develop 2 different speeds. If she wants to bang in the 4-footers, that is fine- I like that too and I can see what she likes about it, but you can't be running all these 16-footers at the hole and leaving yourself a 4-footer, when you have been missing 2-footers lately. Maybe if she had a caddie that was reading putts on the course and putting green, she would be learning something about combining the line and the speed.

Brent Hutto

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2006, 09:33:09 AM »
The LPGA Tour norm is for caddies to suggest a club, pick out a target, align the player at the target, help read putts and help the player aim the putter. All of which sucks and shows one of the many differences in the elite ladies' game and the elite men's game. Good for Michelle Wie to call b.s. on that nonsense.

If Michelle Wie really wants to take the women's game to a higher level then she is doing what she needs to. Yes, trusting the read of an experienced caddie would save her enough strokes that she probably would have won a major by now. But she cares less about winning this year's McDonalds LPGA Championship than she does about being able to compete with elite male players and dominate the women when she's 25 years old.

TEPaul

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2006, 09:33:11 AM »
You guys are the jokes, not Se Ri Pak or Carrie Webb or even Michelle Wie.

You don't think "veterans" or experienced champions miss short putts on the 71st hole or 3 putt from 20 feet on the 72nd hole on a putt that goes straight down hill?

The question isn't were we looking at the same tournament. Of course we were. The question is do any of you who really believe that never happens to a "veteran" or a "champion" really understand golf and tournament golf?  ;)

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2006, 09:39:05 AM »
You guys are the jokes, not Se Ri Pak or Carrie Webb or even Michelle Wie.

You don't think "veterans" or experienced champions miss short putts on the 71st hole or 3 putt from 20 feet on the 72nd hole on a putt that goes straight down hill?

The question isn't were we looking at the same tournament. Of course we were. The question is do any of you who really believe that never happens to a "veteran" or a "champion" really understand golf and tournament golf?  ;)

Tom is right

think that putt that Wie and Pak and ANNika had on 18 was a fooler..all three blasted it by
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Glenn Spencer

Re:Wie 3, Pressel 0
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2006, 09:48:55 AM »
You guys are the jokes, not Se Ri Pak or Carrie Webb or even Michelle Wie.

You don't think "veterans" or experienced champions miss short putts on the 71st hole or 3 putt from 20 feet on the 72nd hole on a putt that goes straight down hill?

The question isn't were we looking at the same tournament. Of course we were. The question is do any of you who really believe that never happens to a "veteran" or a "champion" really understand golf and tournament golf?  ;)

I never said that veterans or experienced champions don't miss 4-footers. I think that it is a little bit of a stretch to say that they found a way into the playoff positively, negatively, maybe. Anyone watching that tournament, knows that 9 should have been the number. Experience was not helping Karrie Webb out one bit on 17 when she missed the hole from 4 feet and experience was not helping Pak when she 3-putted from 20 with the whole thing on the line. Pat Hurst has won a major and played Solheim Cup and she totally broke down. You either hit the shots or you don't, experience is a factor just like being a good bunker player, it is not the end all of end alls.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 09:49:52 AM by Glenn Spencer »

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