Winged Foot Thoughts

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

I agree with Matt & JSlonis in regards to the Slide tee shots and smaller fairway targets than ANGC.  It was even tougher on #8 before they took out the trees to the inside...

While the USGA may not be able to show who is the best long iron player of the week, as they did in 1974, they will be able to target a winning score at just about any number that they want now that the spring has given them the rough that they had hoped for...

[JSlonis]

James,

How many trees did they take out on the inside of #8?  I last played there during the Anderson Memorial last July, and that was the one hole I was curious to see how the pros played it.  A year ago, I thought it was the most awkward tee shot on the course.  The ideal drive, although difficult, was a high cut over the trees on the right.  It was one tee shot that my initial thought was..."the pro's will hate this drive."  Which isn't neccessarily a bad thing.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

I was referring to pre U.S. Amateur tree removal.  It used to be that you could not go far enough left on #8, stay in the fairway and not have to bend one for your second.  Thus, today's situation is better than it used to be...

The slider that got around them was a drive to behold...

Still my favorite Met Golf Course...

JWK

[JSlonis]

Oh...I thought that there had been some tree removal since last year in that area.  

If it hasn't changed, then it remains one of the most awkward tee shots on the course.  I think it may be the only tee shot that will require players to hit it over trees if they want to be more aggresive.

Laying back to the corner is an easier tee shot, but it will leave the player with a very long approach shot to a difficult green.

[Matt_Ward]

Mark:

The improvements that came over the last few years (tree removal) have certainly increased the playability feature of the West Course. The proximity of the rough will not minimize or cause good shots to be thwarted as they were in past championships -- most notably on the 8th hole, to name just one example.

The width of the fairways has dropped just a tad since the '84 event but the course is nowhere close to being bowling alley wide as I saw with Carnoustie at the BO a few years back.

Frankly, I believe the key will be how the power players approach the course versus that of the straight hitters. Winged Foot / West will be quite democratic with either group but it will not be giving the store away with misses of any type. I can see a final twosome comparable to what one saw with the '97 PGA -- a power player (Love) versus a player with more of a control game (Leonard).

[Neil Regan]

How many trees did they take out on the inside of #8? ...The ideal drive, although difficult, was a high cut over the trees on the right.  ...

Jamie,

  Several big old trees came down this spring because they were hazardous. High winds during the removal period demonstrated the necessity of removal. Many large limbs and several trees were blown down.

  You will remember the trees on #8 which are now gone. They were among the ones that caught your shot and dashed your hopes if you tried to hit the shot you mentioned and thought that you had gotten away with a less than perfect shot. Your ball would go high over the tallest trees at the beginning of the fairway, but catch some high branches just as the ball was about to come back into the fairway. Sometimes you could hear the contact just when you thought you were safe. Two of those big old trees came down. They won't have a huge effect, though, because there are still several trees in that area of the woods.

[JSlonis]

Neil,

Thanks for the response. That 8th hole has always intrigued me.  It's a very difficult hole to get comfortable on.  The layup tee shot to the corner is a prudent play, but it's hard to do, knowing that your next shot will be anywhere from 200-230 yds into the green.

It'll be interesting to see how the players will tackle that tee shot.  There is no doubt that many of the contestants have the length to blast it over that corner, but there is a lot of danger lurking.

Another spot that I'm looking forward to seeing is a very back left hole location on #18.  That recaptured area is just fantastic and should make for some great drama.

[Matt_Ward]

JSlonis:

When you say "blast it over that corner" -- I have to ask who will do such a thing?

The height of the trees still in place is quite daunting -- it's like having Shaq right in front of you for a lay-up.

Players are going to need to slide tee shots to the right -- frankly I don't see the overall demands of that type of ball flight to be as quite vexing as what you will see on the 16th and 18th holes respectively because moving a ball consistently and accurately right-to-left is a bit more demanding -- you can hold your hand position for a fade but rolling it too quickly for a draw is an entirely different matter.

[JSlonis]

JSlonis:

When you say "blast it over that corner" -- I have to ask who will do such a thing?

The height of the trees still in place is quite daunting -- it's like having Shaq right in front of you for a lay-up.

Players are going to need to slide tee shots to the right -- frankly I don't see the overall demands of that type of ball flight to be as quite vexing as what you will see on the 16th and 18th holes respectively because moving a ball consistently and accurately right-to-left is a bit more demanding -- you can hold your hand position for a fade but rolling it too quickly for a draw is an entirely different matter.

Matt,

Looking back on this hole, I might have to amend my original post.  I realize that there is a new tee at 475-485 yards.  I'm not actually sure if I played that hole from the new tee.  I think I may have played from the old back tee at about 450.  From that tee, I recall hitting a high cut shot over the corner edge of the right trees.  From the new tee at the extended length, this probably is no longer a viable option.

[Neil Regan]

...I realize that there is a new tee at 475-485 yards.  I'm not actually sure if I played that hole from the new tee.  I think I may have played from the old back tee at about 450.  From that tee, I recall hitting a high cut shot over the corner edge of the right trees.  From the new tee at the extended length, this probably is no longer a viable option.

Jamie,

  It is possible, perhaps not wise. From the new tips, a ball must carry at least 280, and 300 if the shot is pushed at all. And it must be above the tallest trees at 270 yards, which is a high trajectory indeed.

  The left side of the fairway provides a better angle for most of the more difficult pins, especially those over the spine. The shot to the back right pin from the right side of the fairway will reveal the strength of Winged Foot to any golfer. Ask Gene.

  I don't have the evidence to back up this story, but maybe somebody does. I am told that when the pin is left over the long spine that enters midgreen high from the right-side bunker and runs to the back left, Mr. Nicklaus prefers his miss to be deep in the right bunker, perhaps even preferable to many spots on the green itself. I know a good bunker player can often win a closest to the pin challenge from there against a putt from the front, which might bend 40 (!) feet as it tries to ride the ridge left and finally fall right. That putt can fall left, leaving maybe 3 more.

[Matt_Ward]

When people bemoan the gains made by technology I have to chuckle because when one sees the architectural integrity of the West Course at Winged Foot it certainly shows how modern courses should be designed at the very minimum from the tee shot perspective.

Instead of giving the long hitters a launching pad of holes that simply go straight ahead -- how about designs that favor the "slide" tee shot variety you see at the West Course at WF ?

What amazes me about the challenge at the West is that power and accuracy have a healthy interrelationship when playing there. You really can't do one without having some sort of connection to the other.

Working the ball -- roughly 30-45 degrees worth puts the onus on players to get into the proper position and one cannot accentuate the "power" dimension without being acutely aware of getting to the proper position for the demanding approach shots that await.