Winged Foot Thoughts

[Phil Benedict]

Tim Rosaforte on Winged Foot:

"It's been 22 years, but there is not an Open course that looks more like an Open Course than The Foot, and you can't believe how good the West course looks, how beautiful the green complexes are now that the tree huggers have lost their battle, and how terrorizing it's going to be that third week in June, when the contestants can't take a newspaper double and move with a smile to the next tee."

He also had some interesting thoughts courtesy of Butch Harmon on who is likely to do well:

"At lunch afterward, he said Jim Furyk and Luke Donald had a good chance, but that Phil Mickelson is still his favorite. Tiger? Ten of the 14 tee shots require some sort of shape, and the two-time Open champion has a history of struggling on dogleg courses. He will not get away with a loose tee ball on the West."

[mike_malone]

 One of these days Tiger is going to leave his woods home for a U.S. Open and use his advantage as the best long iron player of today's game to play for par and win.

[Jay Flemma]

What the heck is a "newspaper double???"

[Kevin Edwards]

Jay- what is the word "Redonkulous" on your blog???somewhere Herb Wind is rolling his eyes!

[Phil Benedict]

It must be related to the concept of equitable stroke control or something like that.  Post no worse than a double if you have a single-digit handicap.  Great idea in my view.  Real metal play is a bear.

[mike_malone]

 Which are the "ten of fourteen tee shots that require some sort of shape" ?  Supposedly , Tiger has trouble on dogleg courses. I would like to see that evidence. But, is WFW a dogleg course ? I don't see it that way.

[Dan Boerger]

When things go bad for Tiger, it's usually his tee shot.

That said, I have trouble criticizing the game management of anyone who has won 10 professional majors by age 30! I think he lets it rip with the driver until it goes really bad for him. (Which they rarely seem to do.)

Will a Euro finally break the major drought? Can Phil keep it going? Will Tiger be in any frame of mind to compete?

I'll be watching!

[Jay Flemma]

"redonkulous" is a nod to Czaban...his loan out corp is called "Donkey industries."  Besides...dude just accomplished a one in six million feat.

One in six million!  (Getting a hole in one on his birthday!)

Herb Wind likes my moxie.

[JESII]

Which are the "ten of fourteen tee shots that require some sort of shape" ?  Supposedly , Tiger has trouble on dogleg courses. I would like to see that evidence. But, is WFW a dogleg course ? I don't see it that way.

1, 2, 4, 5, 8, 14, 16, 17, 18 at least.

As far as evidence of Tiger struggling, either you are suggesting Butch Harmon is stupid for not knowing his former pupils tendencies or you are accusing him of disparaging Tiger. Do you think anyone on here could be more of an authority on Tiger than Butch?

[Gene Greco]

Which are the "ten of fourteen tee shots that require some sort of shape" ?  Supposedly , Tiger has trouble on dogleg courses. I would like to see that evidence. But, is WFW a dogleg course ? I don't see it that way.

1 - right to left
2- left to right
4- rt to left
5- rt to left
8- L to R
12- R - L
14 - R-L
15 - L-R
16- R-L
17 - L-R
18 - R-L

[mike_malone]

 Are these doglegs ? Can't you just aim for the middle of the fairway and have a good shot , particularly if you only want to make a par?


   I think Tiger will do okay

[JESII]

I wonder what Lee Trevino would say about Butch's thoughts on accuracy and the flat swing.

[JESII]

Are these doglegs ? Can't you just aim for the middle of the fairway and have a good shot , particularly if you only want to make a par?


   I think Tiger will do okay

Mayday, mayday iceberg dead ahead.

Is it easier to hit the fairway with a straight shot or one that curves?

[Phil Benedict]

I wonder what Lee Trevino would say about Butch's thoughts on accuracy and the flat swing.

Lee Trevino's so-called flat spot - the area in which his club was in line with the target prior to contact - was incredibly wide.  That's why he was such a great shot-maker.

As to the question about doglegs, it is easier to hit the fairway on a dogleg with a drive that curves is the same direction as the dogleg.

[JESII]

It is also easier to hit a straight fairway with a ball that curves, so long as you know which way it'll curve, and you aim accordingly.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Are these doglegs ? Can't you just aim for the middle of the fairway and have a good shot , particularly if you only want to make a par?

Mayday,

Go to Google Earth and rethink this. Then go to the back tees on The West and rethink again. Then ... ah forget it.  

[Mark Bourgeois]

I read somewhere that Mickelson now is thinking he may go with two drivers after all because of the doglegs working in both directions.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Which are the "ten of fourteen tee shots that require some sort of shape" ?  Supposedly , Tiger has trouble on dogleg courses. I would like to see that evidence. But, is WFW a dogleg course ? I don't see it that way.

1 - right to left
2- left to right
4- rt to left
5- rt to left
8- L to R
12- R - L
14 - R-L
15 - L-R
16- R-L
17 - L-R
18 - R-L

[Phil Benedict]

Talk about golf heaven. Two great Tillinghast courses 30 miles from Times Square.  Plus Quaker Ridge and Fenway are within a few miles.

[mike_malone]

I just got home and in my mail was my program from the USGA. This is the weakest set of doglegs I have ever seen. I'm not commenting on the quality of the course;I just don't see this as an issue for Tiger.

    JES,

    Of course it is better to move the ball but you don't need to "work" it here.

   Mike,

   I went to a satellite view and still don't agree. I think that the "dogleg effect" forces one to move the ball right or left or choose to lay back to avoid going through the dogleg. I just think this is a rare situation at WFW.

[Steve Lapper]

Talk about golf heaven. Two great Tillinghast courses 30 miles from Times Square.  Plus Quaker Ridge and Fenway are within a few miles.

That is Quaker Ridge's 1st and 8th holes in the bottom left corner of the google map.

Mayday,

   Look closely and note the holes that others have evidenced as "doglegs," then look even closer at the corners and note the trees/treelines that hug those corners....

  They don't make better, more subtle, doglegs in golf.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Mayday,

After you attend, come back and tell us which has more doglegs that come into play - Winged Foot vs Shinnecock.

[BCrosby]

Has Butch ever been to Augusta? Tiger seems to deal with the doglegs there pretty well. He'll deal with the much less dog leggy WFW just fine.

Bob

[mike_malone]

 First of all, I want evidence that Tiger does worse on dogleg courses. I think he does alright at Warwick Hills as well.

  Secondly, I would not call the great majority of doglegs at WFW "sharp'. So, I think Butch is offbase.


   I'm quite confident that Tiger can make the necessary adjustments to keep from embarrassing himself.

[Steve Lapper]

First of all, I want evidence that Tiger does worse on dogleg courses. I think he does alright at Warwick Hills as well.

  Secondly, I would not call the great majority of doglegs at WFW "sharp'. So, I think Butch is offbase.


   I'm quite confident that Tiger can make the necessary adjustments to keep from embarrassing himself.

Mike,

   With the exceptions of #'s 2, 8, 14, 16, 17 & 18, the doglegs are indeed not "sharp." Instead those "softer" angles combine with narrowed fairways and very severe rough to produce wickedly difficult tee shot placement. Given the length of the course, an Open player will be forced to reconsider the driving club. For example, if a player overshoots the fairway on holes 1, 8, 16-18, he'll be left with absolutely little chance of getting to the green. Given that all are par 4's I'd say the playing angles conspire to produce very real dogleg playability. I think clubs other than drivers will be seen on many of these type of holes.

   If your argument is that the doglegs aren't as pronounced as some at Rolling Green, maybe you might be consodered correct, as WFW is a man-sized course. Any other assessment of the lack of "dogleg" severity comes up short.