Lowest Doak Rating for a Major Championship venue?

« **on:** June 02, 2006, 10:36:16 PM »

Which course holds the dubious distinction of having held a major championship (I'm thinking PGA/US Open/Presidents/Ryder Cup, but only because I know nothing of the Open Championship venues, really)? From what I've seen on TV, Olympia Fields didn't seem all that great in 2003. Is Valhalla deserving of a high rank, 'even though' it's a Nicklaus course?

« **Reply #1 on:** June 02, 2006, 10:50:38 PM »

I love this question and I can't wait to hear the responses. On no authority whatsoever, I am guessing Kemper Lakes will be a part of the discussion, although Valhalla is a good place to start, although most people I talk to like it. I have never played it.

« **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:09:56 PM »

Kemper a 5

Valhalla not rated, nor is Bellrieve, which would be another suspect, I think...I think Bellrieve is being redone or restored

« **Reply #3 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:16:33 PM »

Paul T,

'Suspect' I like that.

How about Champions? Dallas Athletic? Are these two at all suspects?

« **Reply #4 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:19:37 PM »

Champions a 5, Dallas Nat not rated

however, a new "winner": Pecan Hills where Boros won a PGA got a 3

!

« **Reply #5 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:29:55 PM »

Dallas Athletic or Dallas National. Pecan Hills got a 3, I have been there and I thought it looked pretty cool. I would have never thought that. 3 will be pretty tough to beat. 1968 PGA Championship host is going to be the winner.

« **Reply #6 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:39:20 PM »

Pecan Valley in San Antonio did in fact get a 3, but since it was redone prior to hosting the USGA Public Links a few years back, it has received a lot of praise and I'll bet Doak would rate it much higher now.

« **Reply #7 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:48:55 PM »

Chris,

That is when I saw it. I really wanted to play it.

« **Reply #8 on:** June 03, 2006, 12:08:40 AM »

PGA National might qualify.At the time it held the Open Northwood must have been hot and barren.Now it and DAC are redone and much better than they were.

« **Reply #9 on:** June 03, 2006, 12:35:01 AM »

Bellerive should be a contender, as Paul says.

« **Reply #10 on:** June 03, 2006, 12:42:38 AM »

I played Olympia Fields during it's pre Open renovation and thought it was good but certainly not one of the great venues for that tournament.
Having now played 43 different U.S. Open layouts I can give you my lowest rung: in no particular order

Northwood
Champions
Midlothian
North Shore
Bellerive

« **Reply #11 on:** June 03, 2006, 02:30:12 AM »

If you include the Ryder Cup (and look outside of the USA) how about the Belfry? It's probably a negative on the Doak scale.

« **Reply #12 on:** June 03, 2006, 04:39:17 AM »

Quote from: Tim Gavrich on June 02, 2006, 10:36:16 PM

Which course holds the dubious distinction of having held a major championship

Musselburgh (Old) ? I would suggest = 6 British Opens

Did he rate the Belfry ?

« **Reply #13 on:** June 03, 2006, 09:01:59 AM »

Belfry got a 4

« **Reply #14 on:** June 03, 2006, 09:06:57 AM »

When you throw the President's Cup in there, I wonder how The Links at Fancourt in South Africa would hold up on the Doak Scale.

« **Reply #15 on:** June 03, 2006, 09:53:35 AM »

PGA National in Palm Beach, FL. - - hosted a Ryder Cup and 2 PGA's I believe - - the mid-winter one won by Jack Nicklaus, and the ever-famous PGA Championship featuring sand/grass clump greens.

« **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2006, 10:19:34 AM »

PGA Nat got a 5 too

« **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2006, 11:43:52 AM »

Bellerive is a much dumped on course...In no way would I throw that in with the North Shore, PGA National, Kemper Lakes crowd.

A couple members have told me their hosting the Western Open in Fall 2007 after the rennovation by Rese Jones.

« **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2006, 07:19:36 PM »

Hazeltine has to be pretty low on the general acceptance charts, at least it was in 1970. Most new courses get a cool reception to hosting majors, with Whistling Straits (which I believe is named after San Fransiscos least favorite bar band) may be the exception.

« **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2006, 07:30:02 PM »

What about Tanglewood in Clemmons, NC, host of the 1974 PGA won by Lee Trevino? I haven't played it, but given the lack of discussion about the place, I don't suppose it's worth going anywhere out of your way to play it.

« **Reply #20 on:** June 03, 2006, 07:30:50 PM »

Geez Doug, last time I talked to Lee, he seemed to like it for some reason.......

« **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2006, 08:44:32 PM »

Tanglewood was not rated by Tom

« **Reply #22 on:** June 03, 2006, 08:47:39 PM »

Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on June 03, 2006, 07:30:50 PM

Geez Doug, last time I talked to Lee, he seemed to like it for some reason.......

Jeff:

Would Lee also suggest you go see La Cita in Titusville, FL to check out some great architecture?

(He's credited as co-designer along with Ron Garl)

« **Reply #23 on:** June 03, 2006, 10:25:03 PM »

What does Shoal Creek get? There was a PGA there in the late 80s, no? Speaking of which, how about Oak Tree. It looked interesting for the Senior PGA, but not spectacular. The Greenbrier (Ryder Cup in the 70s, I think)?

Does anyone know where I might find a brief yet comprehensive Doak Scale? I tried searching for it, but came up dry, but for an entertaining, short interpretation by Mr. Huckaby, I think.

I'd be interested to know the weak link out of the regular Tour stops, but let's hold off until the majors discussion is tired out.

I liked Tanglewood, and give it a 6 on the Gavrich Scale (which doesn't really exist beyond pure reaction). I haven't made the acquaintance of any other major venues thus far.

« **Reply #24 on:** June 03, 2006, 11:52:05 PM »

Shoal a 6, Oak Tree a 6, Greenbrier not rated

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