A few World Class holes or 18 very good holes?

[Ted Kramer]

I'm just looking for opinions here, I don't expect that there is a right or wrong answer . . .

If you were in a position to hire an architect to build you a golf course and he/she came back to you with the following options which would you choose:

a.
*A well routed golf course
*Easily walkable
*Very smooth flow from hole to hole
*Good variety of holes and shots required
*18 above average holes, all of them interesting, none of them outstanding
*par 72

b.
*A slightly strained routing
*Not a tough walk, but less of a walk in the park feel
*A few disjointed holes, not necessarily the greatest flow
*A certain overall feel to the whole course, not a ton of variety but more of a singular vibe throughout all 18 holes.
*2 or 3 rather pedestrian holes and 2 or 3 absolutely world class holes
*par 69

-Ted

[Tom_Doak]

Ted:

I would have to answer (a).  As much as I want to create world-class individual holes, if they come at the expense of golf course flow and walkability and holes so pedestrian they can't be fixed through great detail work, they have to go.  

BUT I can't imagine that I couldn't work a couple of those world-class holes in with better flow ... it would just mean that I hadn't worked on it hard enough yet.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I'm with "Old Tom" on this one.

I often hear examples of people thinking you have to trade one for the other, and I am not sure you do.  At least, the trade offs are a matter of degrees.

Or, more often than not, they are a matter of moving more earth on one of the connector or lesser holes to make sure you get the true world class holes and all the other things you want in the routing.  Its almost always possible to move that lesser green closer to the ideal tee location of the world class hole that way.  For that matter, building a tee just a bit away from its best location ain't that hard either if it means a shorter walk or whatever.  

[Forrest Richardson]

Ted — In order to answer this one I really need a signed contract. Please call my office right away.

[Ted Kramer]

Which design would you guys rather play?

-Ted

[Mike Nuzzo]

Please put me in the A catagory also - play or design.

Variety and flow are paramount for me.

Which one has the housing?  

[Anthony Butler]

I would swear that some recent designs I have played in New England are designed to make them unwalkable. The Jones course at Pinehills has   a very playable group of holes ruined by the excessive distance between some greens and the next tee. The only excuse that would exonerate the architects responsible, would be if both Nicklaus and Rees Jones were presented with a plot that already had the homesites and internal roadways assigned.

I know it's hilly, rocky New England, but there are plenty of courses where they managed to make the course walkable and include some... the development of carts as both a technology and revenue stream both allows and  encourages laziness in terms of routing. I'm not claiming the TPC at Bolton is as walkable as Myopia, Essex or TCC, but you don't need a GPS hand help to find the next tee.

[Padraig Dooley]

I think nearly every goat track I've played certainly has one or two notable holes, if not great holes. The answer has to be A

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