[Glenn Spencer]

I think that the 1st and 18th holes at Muirfield Village are pretty similar to each other. The only real difference in my mind is the big tree on 18 and the fact that 18 is a touch uphill. Can anyone think of some great golf courses that have such similar 1st and 18th holes? I don't know what has been done to the yardage recently, but they used to both be 437, I know both have been lengthened.

[Glenn Spencer]

Redanman,

What? Both slight doglegs right, with bunkers at the corner of the dogleg, creek in play to the left and an opening in front to a flat green surrounded by four bunkers. What is not similar about that? Lets not forget that they are going the exact same direction.

[Doug Sobieski]

I have to agree with Redanman. They've never struck me as that similar, aside from bending right. 18 seems to bend a LOT more than #1. I wouldn't call the creek on #1 "in play". It's not even a consideration from the tee. #1 plays downhill, while #18 plays uphill.

I guess aside from that, they're identical.

 

[PThomas]

does 1 have those lovely bunkers that  Jack put in on 18?

[Brad Klein]

18 plays way uphill; 1 plays slightly downhill.

[Glenn Spencer]

The tee-shot at 18 is downhill. They go the same direction, the trouble is down the left-side and the bunkers protect the dogleg at close to the exact same distance and the hole is the exact same distance, what am I missing here guys? 18 green is about what 15 feet elevation and the second at one is about 2 feet downhill? Does this really make these two holes that different?

[Brad Klein]

It helps make them completely different if you have ever been there, played them and/or caddied on them!

[Glenn Spencer]

C'mon Doug, you have been in that creek on 1, don't lie. I know that I have. In my initial post, I am just saying that they are pretty similar, I don't see how this can questioned really, but that is not the point, I was wondering if there are any other 'great' golf courses that have a situation like this. This is not a bash MV thread at all, although my head has never really hurt a whole lot after playing there.

Bill,

I am guessing from your posts you haven't played it. Yes, you are correct, the creek is closer on 18, but not that far on 1. A well hit hook with a wind from the right can easily get there.
I am not saying that they are 18 at Winged Foot from the back tee and 18 at Winged Foot from the middle back tee similar, just pretty damn similar.

[Doug Sobieski]

Glenn:

Honestly, I've NEVER given the hazard left on #1 a thought, and I've hit huge hooks my entire life. And I would be surprised if the landing area on 18 was more then 2 feet below the level of the tee. You certainly walk downward right off the tee, but then it's a slow climb to the landing area. And to me, the fairway bunkers don't impact the play of the hole on #1 as much as they do on  #18.

"A well hit hook with the wind out of the right can easily get there" - Doesn't really add up to "in play" for me. On #18, you can have a straight drive land in the fairway and end up in the creek!!!

[Glenn Spencer]

Doug,

You make a good point. I guess it is just me then, I always thought they were really similar, I never said my mind wasn't warped.

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