[david h. carroll]

The Burning Tree thread got me thinking that Arthur Hills has somehow managed to restore/renovate/re-route/re-do/redesign just about every course in the DC area.  On one front I am extremely happy that he has not ventured just a few miles northward to my Baltimore home turf and on another front I wonder if his work could even be called an upgrade from all of the old Ault work on these places over the years.

And how did he get all this work??  Did one club job just open up the doors for all of the others?  A classic case of keeping up with the Jones's for all the wrong reasons?

Off the top of my head, here's the list he's been involved with:
BUrning Tree
Manor
Congressional
Belle Haven
Bethesda
Chevy Chase
Army Navy
Woodmont

[Tom_Doak]

David:

I think the answer for your immediate question is that Arthur Hills' son lives in Maryland and is out there looking for work for the firm.  But, there is a strong tendency for architects to dominate renovation work in certain towns.

One reason it happens is because USGA Green Section regional representatives often recommend an architect to clubs where they make visits.  Once they see a couple of projects which have turned out okay and the members of those clubs are happy with the architect's work, it's pretty easy for them to recommend the same architect to other clubs.  [Some Green Section reps have eaten quite a few free lunches courtesy of various architects.]

Also, as Mike Young frequently notes, people in the Donald Ross Society and for that matter GCA.com are constantly sticking their noses in to recommend architects for consulting work, many of whom are no better or no worse than Mr. Hills.  

[Glenn Spencer]

These are all questions that I would love to know the answer to. Bogey Hendren will be all over me for posting , but I can't help it. I would imagine that it has something to do with his efforts at Oakland, Oakmont and Inverness. Can anyone help with the timeframe of these efforts and the ones in Washington? I will say it 1000 times, I don't see how he pulls it off, his own work has never been rated in the top 100 to my knowledge, with 200 chances, and he is continually allowed to work on great golf courses, it does not make sense. Could someone ballpark the fee for a restoration for someone of Hills' ilk, if there is anyone of that ilk?

[corey miller]

Ken Dye (based in TX) has developed quite a foothold in Westchester County.  It would seem he is the preferred architect of choice in this area.   Which is his best work? and was the the impetus behind all the other clubs choices?

Ardsley
Whipporwill
Willow Brook
Westchester
Blind Brook
Brae Burn
Bedford
Elmwood
Metropolis
Old Oaks
Sleepy Hollow
Round Hill

What are the architectural similarities that would lead these clubs to make the same choice?

[Geoffrey Childs]

Ken Dye (based in TX) has developed quite a foothold in Westchester County.  It would seem he is the preferred architect of choice in this area.   Which is his best work? and was the the impetus behind all the other clubs choices?

Ardsley
Whipporwill
Willow Brook
Westchester
Blind Brook
Brae Burn
Bedford
Elmwood
Metropolis
Old Oaks
Sleepy Hollow
Round Hill

What are the architectural similarities that would lead these clubs to make the same choice?

Corey- I knew this post from you was coming.   You broke the cycle at SH.

Wykagyl has hired Coore and Crenshaw using James Duncan as the on site guy for their soon to begin restoration work.  They are holding the Fenway work done by Gil as their "gold standard" for a successful outcome.

Maybe the Westchester cycle of Ken Dye leaving his fingerprints on classic courses is over.

[Andy Hughes]

David, what has been the result of Hills' DC area work? How would you rate it?  Also, is there a 'sameness' to the courses that wasn't there before?  Maybe most importantly, are the members generally happy?
I drive past Chevy Chase all the time, but have never seen the course--the reviews I have heard have not been overly generous with the praise.

[Jason Mandel]

Andy,

I think I was the one that turned you on to that muni near College Park(I can't even remember the name right now).  With that being said, I caddied at Chevy for a couple of years during college and I love the course course and the club.  I had not seen it pre-hills but the course that is there now is a fun course, with maybe the fastest greens you will ever putt on.

If you ever get the chance, don't pass up an oppurtunity to play Chevy.

Jason

[Craig Disher]

The similarity in Hills' work around DC has to a certain extent played to his advantage. Many of the greens committee members at Manor were impressed with what was being done at Belle Haven and many of the features there wound up (inappropriately, I thought) in his Manor design. The fact that he re-designed Chevy Chase and is linked to a popular area daily fee course gave him name recognition - a great advantage when a club thinks it needs to advertise itself and can't afford Nicklaus or Fazio.

[Bill_McBride]

Add C.C. of Fairfax (VA) to the list of Hills renovation/remodel projects in the D.C. area.  I don't think my old mates there have much good to say about what he did, or at least that it's better than what was there when they were about $2 million heavier in the pockets!

[Andy Hughes]

Andy,

I think I was the one that turned you on to that muni near College Park(I can't even remember the name right now).  With that being said, I caddied at Chevy for a couple of years during college and I love the course course and the club.  I had not seen it pre-hills but the course that is there now is a fun course, with maybe the fastest greens you will ever putt on.

If you ever get the chance, don't pass up an oppurtunity to play Chevy.

Jason

Jason, yup, I do believe it was you that told me about Glenn Dale--and I am forever in your debt! You know my feelings about the place.

I am glad to hear nice things said about Chevy Chase. The placed looks fine driving by, but of course you can see next to nothing from Bradley or Wisconsin.

PS I don't actually pass up the oppotunity to play anywhere these days, as golf is such a rarity anymore.  Falls Road is enough to get the blood pumping  

[Phil_the_Author]

Wondering if another simple aspect to this is the basic law of supply and demand.

Maybe a good number of the courses mentioned would love to have Tom Doak (as an example) do their work, but how many projects does he want to be involved with at any one time?

Even an organization as prolific as Nicklaus' can't do them all.

[david h. carroll]

I gotta think Hills is at least as prolific as anyone out there and if I recall correctly, most of these projects in the DC area were very high ticket....I seem to think that Bethesda paid over $2M just for sod when Hills re-did it back in the late 90's.

[Jerry Kluger]

Art Hills has a standard formula which he has used in the renovation work which he has done in the DC area.  Pushed up greens with some contours but obvious pin placement locations and bunkers that are not strategically significant as they are basically flat and easy to recover from.  Most country club memberships do not want much more than that and are happy with the result.  I would love to see one of the courses use a more innovative architect to do their redesign but I haven't heard of anything. It is my understanding that Woodmont is considering a redo of the greens on the North Course but I suspect that Hills will be doing that.

[Glenn Spencer]

Oh my god, are my eyes really reading what Jerry had to say in his post?? The man has a standard formula. Is he trying to turn Washington golf into 180 of the same holes, probably, that would be just like his par 5's all the same. Someone stop this guy before ruins the whole golf town. Yes, we are from Belle Haven and we would like you to do exactly what you did at Burning Tree to our course, even though they were designed by different people. You can do that? Thanks Arthur, we will see you soon and we will have the Brink's truck here for your arrival. Michigan, Ohio and now Washington DC, be careful before you plan a golf trip to these states!!!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Perhaps Art Hills is a very personable guy, is a good salesman and charges less than others. Perhaps that's part of  his formula for getting these jobs. The members are probably happy with his work. I haven't heard anything to the contrary from Craig and Jerry who are tuned into the DC market.

[Jerry Kluger]

I have played the DC courses with members and they are quite happy with what they got - it is unfortunate that they could've gotten something so much better.  It is a factor though to keep in mind that Hills came in with his ideas, a budget, and from what I understand, he did the job within the budget.  On the other hand, as I understand it, Lakewood CC used Rees Jones for their renovations and they wound up spending millions over budget and the club's finances are now a mess, as they are carrying a huge debt and charging the members big assessments.  

[Bill_McBride]

Glenn, I played quite a few rounds at Belle Haven between 1986 and 1995, had a good client who was a member and we played home and home matches with me at CC of Fairfax.  There were a lot of good golf holes at Belle Haven and a few relatively quirky ones (#9 really tough par 3 comes to mind).

What did Art Hills do?  He probably couldn't do much about the drainage in some areas, or could he?

[david h. carroll]

Bill-- I heard from someone who played in the Belle 4-ball that the routing is the same.  There are just a bunch more bunkers and the green complexes are more raised and varied.  

[Glenn Spencer]

Bill,

I was just using Belle Haven as a reference in my joke about Hills. I know very little about it. I am just amazed that everytime I hear Hills' talked about it is always, 'Yeah, we were satisified or he didn't totally screw it up.' If I were part of making decisions at a club like those, I would demand a little more than coming in at budget, but that is just me.

[ChasLawler]

I never saw Chevy pre-Arthur Hills, but what's on the ground there right now is pretty good in my very humble opinion.

That's a tight space, and the members I've spoken to seem very enthusiastic about his work. One even opined on how Hills restored the Ross character? To be honest, I think many were just happy to get a par-70 course out of the redo – instead of a par-69.

The bunker work may not be to everyone’s taste, but personal preference is personal preference.

Does anyone know where Hills got his start in DC?

[Glenn Spencer]

If you had the chance to have someone that has built over 150 golf courses and has 2 of them ranked in the Golf Digest Top 100 public and 0 ranked in the top 100 in the country, wouldn't you jump at the chance to have him 'restore' your club? Hills is obviously a great architect, he has the built the 'Pebble Beach of the Midwest'- Bay Harbor ranked 35th and Longaberger-65. Bay Harbor looks like unbelievable property, so I guess that is why it is ranked higher, so I guess these courses are just about even in quality. Let me know when Pebble Beach is ranked 35th in anything!!

p.s.- I forgot to mention that one of the Bay Harbor holes was in the top 500 in the world. Anyone know how many Hills' originals have hosted a USGA Womens' Amateur or more important event? My guess is zero, but I would like to know. 2005 Public Links does not count as that wa part of Cincinnati's 100 year celebration and it was given to Shaker Run by default.

[Bill_McBride]

Glenn, vis a vis Arthur Hills, you are in danger of becoming as biased about him as Tommy Naccarrato is about Tom Fazio!   He must be doing something right, if bland, to have all those past customers for references.  Only on this website do you find people as passionately opposed to mediocrity as we are!  

[Glenn Spencer]

Bill,

I would be happy to join such lofty company!! I would be shocked if Tommy could match my intense dislike though, Fazio has a few golf courses that I would love to go and play. Hills doesn't have one that I would walk across the street to play. Not to pick on you, everyone does it, but you can't even defend him without cracking on him.  I really am starting to wonder about this, it is one of the great mysteries of golf in my mind, right up there with the Calcutta at Deepdale and Palmer at 12 at Augusta. The work he has done, in no way, would lead someone to think that he is going to get hired to work on these masterpieces or close to masterpieces. As far as actually giving him the keys to build your course from the start, well that is just architectural suicide. Call up the Miamisburg, Ohio city manager and see if he would hire Hills' again.

[Andy Hughes]

Glenn, I am not familiar enough with Hills' work to agree/disagree with you as to the competence, but I wonder what the criteria should be?  Members of area courses here in DC have ample chances to see Hills' prior work, and they continue to hire him. I assume that means they like what they are seeing.
If members of Belle Haven, Chevy Chase etc are happy with the way their courses turned out, does that mean Hills did a good job? As well, JasonM liked the way Chevy Chase was done, while others here were disappointed by Manor CC.

I understand what you are saying, but I wonder what the measuring stick should be for a successful or failed job.

[Glenn Spencer]

Andy,

You bring up some good points. I am trying to figure out what it takes as well. I am not trying to demean anyone who does restoration work, but I would think that it is very difficult to do a great job or a horrible one. Is this the correct thinking? I don't think that it is too tough to go to Oakland Hills and change a few things around and still have a great golf course. I still am in need of some information about #5 at Inverness, I still don't know who hacked that up, but I suspect it was Hills. #6 too, I think. I am not saying that these clubs are making the wrong choice-wait yes I am, I am also just saying that I find it hard to believe that the members at a course like Burning Tree have really done their homework if they brought in Hills. Maybe they did there homework in the area, but like I said, how bad can you f--- up Congressional or Bethesda? I just can't imagine playing Pipestone or Legendary Run or Fox Run or Longaberger or any of that other crap and saying 'Here you go Hills, here you have carte blanche at our quality club' Another thing, it is not like Hills does a hell of a lot of private courses from the beginning, why let him work on a masterpiece, isn't that abnormal? I don't see the pro from Pipestone leaving for the Head position at Scioto, why Hills?

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