biggest sleeper you've ever played?

[Doug Wright]

Wild Horse
Brora
Dooks
Blueberry Hill, near Warren PA (designed by Ferdinand Garbin, who worked with William Gordon)--a real hidden gem.

[Jim Franklin]

Gene -

That really surprises me as I have been playing there with college friends since the early 80's. Someone knew about the course because rounds always took 6 hours and the wait to play it was even worse. I would have a tough time going back to play unless I was first off because it takes too damned long to play.

[Tim Leahy]

Hunter Ranch in Paso Robles, Ca-Central Coast, designed after an Australian Ranch layout. Rolling property with old Oak trees and the best greens of a public course in CA. In the middle of nowhere, wine country, but a great stopping point between SF or Sacto and LA. If it were anywhere near a major city it would be considered a top 100.

[Garry Cox]

Western Gailes.  First time overseas for golf in 1984 we played it in the afternoon after a morning round at Prestwick.

I returned in 2000 with Don Mahaffey(fellow GCAer) and introduced him to its glory.  We had a memorable day.

[Steve Lapper]

Here's a few I'd call sleepers (certainly at the time I played them):

Engineers (NY)
Century (NY)
Fenway (Post Restoration)
Leatherstocking (NY)
Bethpage Red (NY)
Laurel Links (NY)

Calusa Pines (FLA)
MacArthur (FLA)
Indian Creek (FLA)
Victoria Hills (FLA)

Lawsonia Links (WI)

Meadow Club (NoCal)
Lakeside (SoCal)
California Club (NoCal)
Pacific Grove (Cal)

Royal Westmoreland (Barbados)
Moray (Scotland)
Brora (Scotland)

[Eric Franzen]

First, how is Bethpage Black a sleeper? Rip Van Winkle maybe?

Believe it or not many people out here on Eastern Long Island had never heard of BB and only a smattering had played it pre US Open.

I would have to beg groups to go play it with me.

Now, none of us can get on.

Played with a guy from NYC at Barona Creek a couple of months ago who vaguely recognised Bethpage as a fancy private course when asked if he played there.

Quite amazing since the guy was a hardcore golfer who extended his business trip to SD for two days of 36 holes.

[Gene Greco]

Jim:

   See Eric Franzen's post above.

I encountered this all the time LOCALLY pre 2002 US Open.

There are many things we ASSUME on this web site. But the fact is WE are the ones out of the mainstream.

BTW:  Once a year I'll suffer through the 5-6 hour grind because The Black is THAT good. However, I haven't been back since 2001 because I can't get a tee time!

[Jim Franklin]

Gene -

I understand it is that good and I would play it too if I could get a time  . What Eric said just blows me away because I can't imagine anyone NOT hearing of Bethpage. We are in the minority.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jim,
You haven't been to SoCal, more specifically Orange County much have you? If you asked anyone here who Bethpage was they would either tell you the famed Black Dahlia (Elizabeth "Beth" Short) or pin-up model, Bette Page.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jim,
You haven't been to SoCal, more specifically Orange County much have you? If you asked anyone here who Bethpage was they would either tell you the famed Black Dahlia (Elizabeth "Beth" Short) or pin-up model, Bette Page.

Same goes for NorCal - most my age ask if it's Jimmie Page's sister.

Seriously, Bethpage is pretty well known post-US Open.  Prior to that... hell I had barely heard of it myself, and only came to know much about it all because Mike Golden raved about it.

TH

[Garland Bayley]

First, how is Bethpage Black a sleeper? Rip Van Winkle maybe?
...
Third, I agree with Shivas in that I NEVER expected NGLA to be as good as it was. I kept hearing it was great, but I didn't expect that quality. Awesome place.

So how is NGLA a sleeper? Rip Van Winkle the second must have slept for over a century.  

[Andy Silis]

Island Hills Golf Club, Sayville,NY ( Long Island )
 
Very natural, pretty minimalist, wonderful subtle
 breaking greens that were some of the smoothest and fastest playing surfaces I had encountered in a long while. Also a little quirk thrown in for good measure as well as some great bunkering.

A real hidden gem, that completely caught me by surprise.  

Marred only by a very out of place and unnatural looking pond near the green on 18.

[Travis Ripley]

two Maxwell courses: Hillcrest CC in Bartlesville, OK and Muskogee CC in Muskogee, OK.  played them both in junior tournaments and was kinda ho-hum about them.....but played them both in recent years and was pretty impressed....as very solid play it every day club courses.  another Maxwell Oklahoma course that would be in that category would be Dornick Hills.....though the revision done a while back is kind of iffy.    

Western Gailes is a good choice: at least for me in relative ignorance.....my Dad had played it before a couple times and talked it up but i didn't really pay much attention to him.  would have liked to play Crail....next time for sure.    

[David Kelly]

Hunter Ranch in Paso Robles, Ca-Central Coast, designed after an Australian Ranch layout. Rolling property with old Oak trees and the best greens of a public course in CA. In the middle of nowhere, wine country, but a great stopping point between SF or Sacto and LA. If it were anywhere near a major city it would be considered a top 100.

Tim,

What do you mean by "best greens in CA"?  Conditioning?

[Mike Boehm]

Oak Hills CC in San Antonio, TX.  
Muskegon CC in Muskegon, MI.  

[Tim Leahy]

Hunter Ranch in Paso Robles, Ca-Central Coast, designed after an Australian Ranch layout. Rolling property with old Oak trees and the best greens of a public course in CA. In the middle of nowhere, wine country, but a great stopping point between SF or Sacto and LA. If it were anywhere near a major city it would be considered a top 100.

Tim,
What do you mean by "best greens in CA"?  Conditioning?

I was referring to condition, fast, smooth, and still will hold a shot. I am not an expert enough in green design to compare to other public courses in that area, although I don't recall any major flaws in that area either.

[Mike_Golden]

Bellport (NY) GC-I went there at the invitation of my niece's fiancee at the expense of a round at Bethpage Black and just had a great time playing this original Raynor layout (except for the 100+ mosquito bites I got because I didn't have any bug spray with me )

By the way, I must be on a different planet with some of you regarding Hunter Ranch-I played it about 6 years ago (once) while on my way to meet up with Messrs. Emperor and Redanman at Ojai and thought it was a horrible golf course.  All I remember about it is that there is a par 5 dogleg right with a tree in the middle of the fairway and a pond on the right side that you absolutely can't see or expect off the tee.

[Adam_Messix]

Martin--

You are absolutely right about Burning Tree, an excellent course that will forever go unnoticed for it's quality.  

It's not the biggest sleeper though.  That would have to be between Indian Creek in Florida and Old Town in NC with Burning Tree and Biltmore Forest right behind.  I just hope the raters never find these places.  

[scott anderson]

Onwentsia

[David Kelly]

Hunter Ranch in Paso Robles, Ca-Central Coast, designed after an Australian Ranch layout. Rolling property with old Oak trees and the best greens of a public course in CA. In the middle of nowhere, wine country, but a great stopping point between SF or Sacto and LA. If it were anywhere near a major city it would be considered a top 100.

Tim,
What do you mean by "best greens in CA"?  Conditioning?

I was referring to condition, fast, smooth, and still will hold a shot. I am not an expert enough in green design to compare to other public courses in that area, although I don't recall any major flaws in that area either.

Thats what I figured.  

I think Hunter Ranch is a nice place to play golf but I wish that a real architect had been given the opportunity to work with that piece of land.  Somebody could have really built something special there.

[Thomas_Brown]

Jim,

I was thinking about the Bethpage Black that chewed me up and spit me out in 1986.  Now it's a muni CCFAD - but a worthy one at that.

Second the Western Gailes nomination!
I fondly look back to my time there.

Tom

[Darren_Kilfara]

Maybe not the absolute biggest sleeper (I don't have instant recall), but a definite contender for the honour is Braid Hills #1 in Edinburgh - anyone who loves Painswick simply has to play it, because it's the course Painswick wishes it was. I'll also second the nomination of Longniddry. Reay, on the north coast of Scotland, is worth a vote or two as well, as is Dunaverty, near Machrihanish. (Tain, on the other hand, is not IMHO, but I know it's a course to divide opinions...)

Of American courses, I'd nominate Shinnecock Hills, simply because I played it back in 1993 - having had only vague memories of the Ray Floyd Open in '86 and not really knowing what to expect - and was utterly blown away. Shenecossett, in Connecticut, is another candidate on a different plane.

In Australia, I'd nominate Portsea. (Chris Kane hadn't oversold it before he introduced me to it...wow.)

Cheers,
Darren

[Jason Blasberg]

Laurel Links

Ditto on Laurel Links, it's been in my relative back yard for years and I had no idea of the quality on the ground there!

[Mitch Hantman]

Indianwood Old north of Detroit

[David Neveux]

After all of the anti Arthur Hills sentinment I've read here, I must nominate Shepards Hollow in Clarkston, Mi.  I played holes 10-27 today and I was truly wowed.  

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