Best site...ruined

[Glenn Spencer]

Jeff,

Not just a rolling Ohio site? Some of the best golf courses in the world are built on these. Longaberger doesn't measure up to any of them and that would have to fall into my ruined category.

[Tim Pitner]

I think it's difficult to define what constitutes a failure on a spectacular site.  For example, is anything less than a Doak 8 a failure if you have good oceanfront property?  Are Torrey Pines, Sandpiper, Half Moon Bay, Spanish Bay and even Bandon Dunes failures because they aren't the course Pacific Dunes is?  (BTW, I love BD).  I don't think so.  Like Ed said, to say that a course could have been better isn't the same as saying that the site was ruined.  Then, there's something like Sandpines, which is truly a disaster.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Glenn,

Perhaps,  but of 17,000 US courses, and maybe 12,000 of them built on that type of site, only a handful are truly great.  For that matter, only a handful were designed with the intent of being great.  So, if Longaberger, or any similar course fails to make the top 200, does that constitute a ruined site?  

IMHO, an oceanfront or otherwise spectacular property like TP has such a head start in making the rankings that a failure to do so is wasted opportunity and site.  Getting an average golf course out of what is basically an average US site is not.......its just sort of the natural order of things.

[Glenn Spencer]

Jeff,

Have you been to Longaberger? Are you really telling me that there are 12,000 sites like that one? An average golf course out of an average site? You must not have been there to call that average.

[Jordan Wall]

Sandpines was a little messed up.

It is a good course but the site was ruined (I feel) because instead of being simply a 'good' course it could have been world class.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jeff,

Have you been to Longaberger? Are you really telling me that there are 12,000 sites like that one? An average golf course out of an average site? You must not have been there to call that average.

Glenn,

No, I have missed Longaberger, but have been near it.  So, I don't really know what it is for a site, but do know what the Columbus countryside looks like and have seen the other courses around the area.  

[Glenn Spencer]

Jeff,

Longaberger is Columbus the same way Quaker Ridge is in the financial district. It is an unbelievable site with everything that an architect could ask for including being able to see for miles at a time. It is something to behold until you put your glove on. It really is a beautiful place, if you left your clubs at home. Jesse Jones has the right idea earlier in this thread, if someone else got a hold of this baby you could have been looking at Ohio's respectful answer to the way Sand Hills is thought of, but that is only if someone with real talent got a hold of it.

[rgkeller]

Well, we haven't seen Sebonack as yet.

[Mike Hendren]

Is there a vet in the house willing to pronounce Longaberger dead so Glenn will quit beating it?  He's gonna need shoulder surgery if someone doesn't come to his rescue.

Katz?  Anybody?

Mike

[Tim Pitner]

Longaberger is Columbus the same way Quaker Ridge is in the financial district. It is an unbelievable site with everything that an architect could ask for including being able to see for miles at a time. It is something to behold until you put your glove on. It really is a beautiful place, if you left your clubs at home. Jesse Jones has the right idea earlier in this thread, if someone else got a hold of this baby you could have been looking at Ohio's respectful answer to the way Sand Hills is thought of, but that is only if someone with real talent got a hold of it.

Glenn, I can appreciate the beauty and potential of a site like Longaberger, but it seems to me that the sandy soil of something like Sand Hills would separate it quite a bit from rolling farmland.

[Glenn Spencer]

Eckstein,

I was saying the way that it is thought of not the type of golf course. I don't know if sand is required to be a world-class site or not. I just know that it si a beautiful place and for "its type, it is one of the best I have played"

[ed_getka]

Jeff,
   I don't think anyone is saying that a good site should yield a top any number course. A good site should NOT have bad holes on it. I would say Longaberger as an example was a very good site, but I wouldn't say you would expect a slam dunk top 100 from that land. It is reasonable to expect there wouldn't be bad holes IMO.

[mike_beene]

To me the underachiever is Turnberry.This is a stretch,but Cowboys feels like a better version of Turnberry on a lesser site.Would like to see what Jeff Brauer would do with it.

[Doug Sobieski]

The winner in my book is Bay Harbor. When it was being built, it was being touted as "The Pebble Beach of the Midwest". It's a course to play once if you are in the area, but not worth a special trip. Given the Lake Michigan coastline and old quarry begging for great holes, Art Hills struck out. It gets nary a mention as even Top 15 or so in Michigan after EXTREMELY high expectations.

[scott anderson]

Ocean Course at the Olympic Club.

[Dr Katz]

Mr Hendren, did you call? Is there someone in need of medical attention of the psychiatric variety?

[Mike Hendren]

Good Doctor,

As always, thanks for checking in.  I was just a little concerned about Glenn.  He's been beating Longaberger like a red-headed step child - with freckles.  

Kindest regards,

Mike

[Glenn Spencer]

Bogey,

Thank you for your concern, it is just so thoughtful. Have you played Longaberger? I would like to hear your thoughts. I think I might have a Longaberger problem, maybe I should see someone. Is this Dr. Katz pretty good? Ok, I am off to ice down my right shoulder, it really hurts.

[Anthony Butler]

[quote ]
The property at Pinehurst # 7 was very good -  rolling sandy terrain. Then Rees started moguling it up and there is not one enticing to be found on the entire course. It is a "play once and move on" course.

There is a large swale through the property on #7 that perhaps could have been used more imaginatively... a lot of up and down shots, no angles. I am unsure as to whether there were any drainage issues to deal with, but Pinehurst #8 has a lot of hills to contend with and they are used more interestingly than on #7.