[Paul_Turner]

Thanks to Brian Ewen for these beautiful pics of Gleneagles Queens.

Unlike the Kings course, Alister Mackenzie liked the Queens; probably because he didn't bid on the project and lose?  His criticism of the Kings was that it was designed "by committee"; too many cooks... Whereas he liked the Queens because it was designed by one man: CK Hutchison.  I'd like to know more about this chap, he built some fine courses often in partnership with Guy Campbell and SV Hotchkin.  A partnership that perhaps doesn't get its due recognition.


The 4th

The 6th

The 12th

The 12th green

The 14th green

The 14th from 5th tee

The 15th

The 17th

The 17th green


I have some more pics from Jeroen which I can post if wanted.

[ian]

I can't forgive myself for staying there and playing the Kings and not touring the Queens. The one thing that strikes me from the photos is how much they look alike.

I did play 11 rounds on the pitch and putt course though. If you have a picture of that, I really could use it.

Keep the courses coming Paul, this is one of my favourite things on the site.

[Brian_Ewen]

Thank you Paul for allowing me to share these photos with the group . I enjoyed Jeroens photos of the Kings course that you also posted , and being a fan of the Queens I wanted to address the balance .

Paul I am puzzled as I have always thought the Queens was a James Braid designed course  , though I knew that it had been re-modelled by James Alexander in the 1950's . Certainly some of the greenside bunkering has a Braid look about them ? .

If you are ever at Gleneagles and only have the time to play one course I would recommend the Queens over the Kings . I am one that agrees with Dr MacKenzie that the Kings has too many holes where you see more of the green from the tee , than you do from the fairway.

The Queens doesnt have the incredible views of the Kings (though the photos show they are not far behind ) but the course has a more compact feel to it , a lovely routing , and at less than 6700 yards and a par of 68 , it is playable and enjoyable for a golfer of my standard .

One negative point , If these wetter summers in Scotland are here for good , Gleneagles must do something about the drainage on the course . This will be third time I have played at Gleneagles over the last couple of years , and each time the fairways have been very wet and boggy .

When we played last week , Gleneagles were running a speacial deal for October of £31 a round , at this price I consider the Queens a bargain .

[Paul_Turner]

Brian

I was going by what Mackenzie wrote in "The Spirit of St Andrews", looking at the architecture bible by Cornish and Whitten, both Braid and Hutchison are credited for both Kings and Queens, so who knows?  C&W is sometimes wrong, as they can only go by what the club tells them.  Perhaps I might dig something up in my research?

I agree that both courses look similar, both in style and interest: some spectacular holes!

Not sure what's up with a couple of those pics above???

[Tyler Kearns]

Paul,
       Great pictures, I concur with Ian, it's one of the best features of GCA, so please, feel free to post more images. Amongst many other things, architecture is a visual art; therefore, more pictures equals better education.

Tyler Kearns

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Paul
Wonderful pictures. The use of the natural features of the site is striking. I'm with you in wanting to know more about Hutchison. Darwin believed Hutchison never got his proper due at Gleneagles, or his proper due as an architect. He attributed it to the fact he had a quiet and effacing personality, and unfortunately because he didn't design that many courses.

I know he was a Scot educated at Eton. A very fine amateur, he lost in the finals of the British Am when up one with two to play at Muirfield (he hailed from Lothian). He was engaged to marry Joyce Wethered - don't what happened there. He was a POW during WWI and built a golf course in the stallag. He and Campbell were long time partners.

[allysmith]

Brian,

Excellent photographs. Now Cruikie is a world wide golfer. Your views on the Queens are to be applauded. I have played the Kings and Queens about 6 times each and fully agree that the challenge of the queens out strips the Kings by quite a way.

Unfortunately the technical challenges of both the Kings and Queens do not match those of the PGA Centenary and so they were not chosen for the 2014 Ryder Cup. Even a suitable composite course could not be put together.

I guess the allure and charm should remain with us amateurs as the Kings and Queens have succumbed to the ravages of time.

[Tommy_Naccarato (Guest)]

It is interesting to see this bunker maintenance and practices. for those of you that don't know, Gleneagles is under the watchful guise of David Kidd's father who I believe is superintendent there.

The bunkers DO in fact have that Bandon Dunes look to them.

[Brian_Ewen]

Paul
Having a quick look through books and websites , several times Major CK Hutchinson is listed as Braid's assistant on the Gleneagles project .

The courses were built between 1914 and 1919 , James Braid would have still been playing golf in these years, so maybe Major Hutchinson should be given more credit for the design , though using the C&W bible , Braid designed very few courses during this period .

A couple of facts I found interesting while looking through these books :

The Queen's course was intended as a ladies' course , which explains its shortness.

Many people think the Hotel / Courses are named after the bird but it is actually an anglicisation of the Gaelic glen eaglais, the glen of the church.

[Simon Barrington]

Paul
Having a quick look through books and websites , several times Major CK Hutchinson is listed as Braid's assistant on the Gleneagles project
The courses were built between 1914 and 1919 , James Braid would have still been playing golf in these years, so maybe Major Hutchinson should be given more credit for the design , though using the C&W bible , Braid designed very few courses during this period .

Hi Brian,

Please Note: This is a general, not personal response...

The assumption (& other's assertion previously) are the exact opposite of the truth.
This is a myth that has run for some time now, you are far from alone in the misconception.

This is understandable as "The Good Doctor" threw considerable shade on Braid (but couldn't even bring himself to do so by name, only by omission) in 'The Spirit of St. Andrews'.
This was in commercial frustration as he had seen the property first but failed to secure what was a golden opportunity, one that Braid & CK Hutchison (as assistant on his first ever project having been recommended to Braid & Gleneagles by HS Colt) grabbed with both hands.

Design of both the 18 Hole Kings and 9 Hole Queens started in 1913. The Queens was not solely CKH.

Where another source of confusion lies is that CKH did produce really excellent visual and topographical maps for all the holes, which were then replicated in the various Gleneagles Hotel Guides. That is not the same as the hole designs being his, as Braid used numerous draftsmen & map makers over the years on his courses, but he was very detailed and specific in what he wanted represented and built (as Stutt re-affirmed later)

Contrary to the assertion Braid was beginning the winding down of his competitive golf at that time, having won his last of Five Opens in 1910 and periodically struggled with his old eye injury (legacy of lime in his eyes when working as a joiner) from 1911 onwards.

BTW - He had started his design career back in 1896 at Romford, when Pro & Greenkeeper, had completed many original projects (and remodels) prior to Gleneagles, having written "Advanced Golf" in 1907 detailing his principles.

The lack of projects was solely due to The Great War, while others travelled to the US (Colt, Park etc.) The Triumvirate stayed here.
(As well as James Braid's sea sickness stopping him being well-documented, even if he had wanted to travel across the pond)

Col. CK Hutchison was called up and bravely went into active service between 1914 and 1918/9 (even designing a rudimentary course inside a POW camp) so it was Braid who oversaw the numerous modifications during construction, and not (as Dr. Mackenzie suggested) the other way around.

BTW - Braid himself did volunteer (as I believe his great friend JHT also did) although the Triumvirate were all over the age for a call up, so the authorities were very delighted that the three, plus Sandy Herd, played numerous charity games across the length and breadth of the country throughout the War for various War Charities.

Dr Mackenzie did provide a later local interview relating to the Queens course with a far more positive slant (thanks to Neil Crafter who shared this with me) but again this was a commercial imperative by him as the opportunity existed to extend the 9 to 18, which he alluded to, given the roaring success the courses were having. Dr Mackenzie was ahead of his time, consummate at self-promotion.

The job of course remained with Braid & CKH, why change given the plaudits and quality of work already there.
Braid returned numerous times to tweak the routing of both courses throughout the 1920's.

CKH was clearly talented and he was mentored very well by Braid, and Braid was even called in by CKH to assist him on the remodelling of Turnberry's Ailsa course (BTW Braid's remodel of the No.2 Course - later Arran - was lauded widely prior to WWII and the course was more often used than the Ailsa!).

We can clearly see Braid's style and influence at both Tadmarton Heath and Kington, CKH was a very quick student and talented golfer in his own right and that should be celebrated.

But the diminishing (due to the commercial frustrations expressed in print by another highly competitive genius) of James Braid's contribution to what is rightly regarded as some of his very best design work is incorrect, and really ought not to persist.

In a modern context, do we talk Tom Doak's contribution to great projects such as Pacific Dunes and The Lido (redux) down, due to Brian Schneider's current/future success?

NO, nor should we, as they are both due our praise and respect...

Cheers

[Niall C]

I am admittedly no expert on Gleneagles but I did do a bit of research in the national archives as part of the MacKenzie Timeline project. The archives hold a certain amount of material such as old letters books and I think from memory minute books. In the Spirit of St Andrews, MacKenzie had claimed that he was the first gca to look at Gleneagles and I was trying to find evidence of him being there. Sadly I don’t have notes to hand so the following is based on memory.
 
I found no evidence of anyone other than Braid being considered for the role of gca and indeed it was clear that he was no. 1 choice right from the outset. I don’t think I’d ever heard of Colt being approached or that he’d recommended Hutchison.
 
However, Hutchison was directly employed by the railway/hotel company as Director of Golf so it would make sense that Colt might have been first choice for that role given his role at Sunningdale. By that the time Hutchison (c.1912/13 ?) had left the Coldstream Guards and no doubt was looking for opportunities and being known to Colt and Colt not being interested in the role himself, it seems entirely plausible that Colt put his name forward. I’d be interested to hear Adam’s thoughts on any Colt involvement.
 
Whatever the truth of that, I don’t think CKH would have been giving Braid any advice on the design of the course and instead I think his input would be more as a link to the Board as well as passing updates to Braid on construction and then passing on any instruction from Braid to the contractors. All conjecture on my part.
 
As we do know WWI came along and CKH signed up for the army. I can’t quite recollect whether he resigned his role at Gleneagles or whether it was just put in abeyance but I’m pretty sure it was all amicable. Given he was doing his patriotic duty and there was a genuine belief at that time that it would all be over quite quickly I suspect there was an agreement that the job would be waiting for him when he came back. And it appears that is what happened.
 
In the interim, while CKH was largely sitting in a POW camp at the Keisers pleasure, the 18 hole King’s course and the 9 hole Queen’s were largely finished. Given the scale and prestige of the overall project, I’d imagine that Braid paid more than a few visits during that period. It seems clear to me therefore that those finished courses were all Braid.
 
Where it gets interesting is in that the Queen’s course was extended to 18 holes in late 1921 and early 1922 due to the popularity and success of the project. From articles it appears it was intended as a ladies course although I tend to think it was also very much for those men who found King’s too much of a handful. That might account for the Queen’s being a 9 hole course initially.
 
The question is whether that was the original intention or whether there was always a thought it might be extended in which case you’d might expect Braid to do an 18 hole routing plan at the outset. If however it was intended to be no more than 9 holes did CKH conceive the extra nine holes when the need to extend the course became apparent ? In other words did he design the second nine holes with Braid signing off the plans or was there a larger redesign of the course ?
 
As I said, I’m no expert on Gleneagles, and in particular how the courses evolved however if you look at the present Queen’s course, if you played out to the 4th green and then cut across to the 14th and played in from there you’d have quite a neat out and back 9 hole course. The second nine could then be added without much disruption. Does anyone have a plan of the original 9 hole Queen’s course ?
 
Whatever happened with the extension of the Queen’s and whoever was involved, Braid was back towards the end of 1924 making some tweaks to a couple of holes on the King’s. That suggests to me he would likely have had some involvement in the Queen’s course extension.
 
 
Niall

[Simon Barrington]

Thanks Niall,

To add some more detail, I have been doing some deeper digging:

We'll just have to take the Good Doctor's word for his early visit.
I am pleased to confirm that I have found a reference to his inspecting the site.
But unfortunately, I cannot date that visit, nor confirm that he was first on site, nor if the report he made was solicited or unsolicited.

Ref: 28 May 1919 – The Perthshire Advertiser (on the occasion of the soft, no fanfare opening of Gleneagles – as the Hotel was not completed until 1924) wrote:
“…And the following excerpt from the report of Dr. Mackenzie of Leeds, the well-known architect: -
“In conclusion I am strongly of the opinion that in the magnificence of the surroundings, the bracing character of the air, the boldness and infinite variety of the golf, and the undulating character of the ground, with the total absence of steep hills, Gleneagles will be absolutely unrivalled among inland links.”

I concur that Colt's recommendation of CKH was more likely relating to the GM position, given his own great standing in that role at Sunningdale, which he resigned in 1913 (reasons below)

I have not found that the job was considered for anyone else but James Braid, but await to hear if Adam has unearthed anything from his research from his upcoming Colt Book. Colt certainly will have known CKH from their Amateur exploits.

Why did Colt step down at Sunningdale in 1913?
Simply, his architectural career was blossoming, and this initial period was an incredibly busy time for Colt including UK work at; Blackmoor, Copt Heath, Handsworth, St George’s Hill, Woodhall Spa, Royal Porthcawl, Beaconsfield, Betchworth Park, Camberley Heath, Manchester, & Oxley Park.
This was also when Colt’s international business, introduced by Carters’ Office in North America was taking off. Resulting in a period of extensive international travel for Colt including notable as projects such as:
Golf de St Cloud (France).
The Royal Montreal, Bowness (NLE) & Hamilton (Canada).
Old Elm, Bloomfield Hills, Pine Valley, & Detroit CC (USA)

Ironically, Carters’ UK operation were hired to construct the two courses at Gleneagles.
But, listening to Adam on the excellent “Firm & Fast” Podcast it seems in the UK Colt was retained by Suttons Seeds, and not Carters.

So, Colt will have known he wasn’t going to be available for such a large-scale project, even if he was approached.


John Moreton read a lot of the original early Gleneagles Hotel documentation for his book “James Braid and his 400 Golf Courses” and he describes CKH as being “Construction Supervisor” which is consistent to your hunch.

I have found numerous press reports over the years 1914-1922 that all cite Braid as the lead on the project, even explicitly as the “Architect in Chief” and then in several reports secondly “in association with Captain C K Hutchison”.

Braid’s first visit was on 4^th/5^th Dec 1913 from his meticulous ledgers (Ref. George Payne’s “Divine Fury of James Braid”). Braid & CKH’s first joint visit was 29^th December 1913 (according to John Moreton)
Braid made 9x return train trips up there prior to Oct 1914 (mostly by the overnight Sleeper, as noted in his ledgers this was a £1 fare!)
Braid received a payment of £100 in May 1915 and another of £59-18-6 in August 1917.


Interestingly I can find no record of CKH’s involvement in any press reports pre-WWI, which is odd given his notable amateur exploits. (He represented Scotland in nine consecutive annual matches against England from 1904 to 1912. During that time, he also reached the final of the Amateur Championship while a member of Tantallon Golf Club in North Berwick, losing to Robert Maxwell by a single hole at Muirfield in 1909).

In fact, I can find only two reports that even possibly suggest CKH at the same level of input as Braid in relation to the Gleneagles project.

The first of these was in the “Evening Post” on 17 May 1920 – when Abe Mitchell is quoted in anticipation of his first ever visit to Gleneagles as follows: “It represents the work of Captain C K Hutchison and James Braid, and though they had wonderful natural golfing country to deal with I am told that they have done their work with great credit”

This seems to be the only press reference I can find with CKH listed first.
Perhaps this was; traditional class distinction by the editor as Amateurs (Gentlemen) were considered above Professionals (Players/Tradesmen), or a puff piece fed by CKH in launching his own golf architecture career and if so could he have been the person who told Mitchell about the works quality and his role in it, or perhaps did Mitchell himself have an axe to grind?

The second, was of course The Good Doctor’s in “Spirit of St Andrews”, so perhaps the Mitchell quote, or merely Dr. Mackenzie's competitive pique, was the source of that published misconception?


In terms of the extension of The Queen’s to 18, this decision was made in late 1919.
Braid did this for an additional fee of £19-0-0 plus £2-5-0 expenses.

One of the original King’s Course holes (“Muir Tap” the 11th) was transferred to the Queen’s Course (as the new 11^th) and eight brand new holes were created, predominantly on an extended parcel of land at the West corner or “neuk” of the site.

It was not just an addition of these 9 holes, as Braid added a considerable number of new bunkers to the original 9 holes (originally 34 bunkers over 9-holes, became 117 bunkers over 18-holes)
The length was enhanced too from 2505yds for 9, to 5810yds for 18.

Also, there were two new short holes built (11^th “Deil’s Creel” & 16^th the new “Wee Bogle” replacing the lost one that was originally the 12th) for the King’s Course in its re-routing at that time.

I have reviewed maps of both the 1920 routings (pre-changes being complete) and the 1926 routings (post changes)

I can confirm that you are correct that the original first four holes (on the 9-hole Queen’s Course) connected to the original last five holes as you guessed. i.e. Holes 1-4 then 14-18 today, are in fact the original 9-Holes and routing (but with more bunkers).(Note: The 3^rd Hole on Queen’s was changed in name only from “Heather Bell” to “Gushet Rig”)

The original 9-hole Queen’s course was intended as a Ladies’ Course, but it was used during the qualification in the £1000 Press Association (and later Glasgow Herald) Tournaments in both 1920 & 1921. The professionals found it a handful at times especially if the wind blew.

Daily Telegraph 9 Jun 1921 - “(Arthur) Havers created a record for the Queen’s course - a box of tricks, as some disappointed golfers have described it - by going round in 31.”
N.B. - J.H. Taylor scored 41 as the highest score that same day, and 3 others including Gordon Lockhart (The Gleneagles Professional) scored 40. Proving that the 9-holer at only c.2500yds was no push over.

Sunday Dispatch 12 Jun 1921 - George Duncan wrote - “I do not think I have played over a more picturesque course than the Queen’s, which was brought into use for the purpose of the qualifying competition, but it is alarmingly narrow and, in some respects, tricky. You may be only a few yards off line and yet be in hopeless trouble.”

8 Apr 1922 Perthshire Advertiser - re. Glasgow Herald 1000 Guineas Tournament - noted that “the Queen’s Course is at present being extended to 18 holes.”

What about CKH during and post WWI (as he is not mentioned regarding the later Queen’s extension to 18, in any press reports I have found so far)?

In December 1914 Captain Hutchison was in action at Givenchy (France).
The following month the trenches were over-run and he was taken as a Prisoner of War.
He was held in Germany in various camps until November 1917 when he was transferred to Switzerland and returned home at the end of 1918.
He resigned his commission on 12 June 1920 and was granted the honorary rank of Major (hence the change of title).

The Perthshire Advertiser (18 May 1921) - CKH was cited as visiting Pitlochry GC “a week ago” to produce a detailed report on some fairly extensive course improvements.

He was credited with designing Tadmarton Heath and Kington during the early 1920s before joining up with S.V. Hotchkin and Guy Campbell – a family friend who had assisted him in the reconstruction of Wimereux in France – to form the Links and Courses company in 1926, taking on projects in the south of England at Ashridge, Leeds Castle and West Sussex. The design practice didn’t last long, however, and after a few years Hutchison was back out on his own, renovating courses such as Harewood Downs (1938) and the Ailsa at Turnberry (1939, notably with Braid who he paid directly for his input) before the start of the Second World War.

In 1936 he also made proposals at Sheringham (which Braid had remodelled c. 1904) which were completed as shown on a Course Plan dated in 1952.

Sadly, he died in a private nursing home at Horsell in Woking, Surrey on 25 March 1941, at the age of 64.

RIP (Seems apt to post this and celebrate CKH's service, involvement, and subsequent career today, Remembrance Sunday)

Cheers

[Simon Barrington]

One more nuggett re. CKH & HS Colt:

Both served on the 5-man Championship Sub-Committee for The Amateur Championship in 1911, along with John L. Low

I found a press report of their upcoming consideration of Westward Ho! as the potential venue for the 1912 Amateur Championship (which was the venue chosen)

So certainly well-known to each other and when one reads back to this period it is clear how small (& dare I say incestuous) the golfing world was at that time.

[Niall C]

Simon


That's a fantastic find with the quote from MacKenzie's report which must surely have been solicited. I can't imagine he'd have gone all the way to Perthshire to look and report on a site if he wasn't paid to do so.


With regards to CKH, he wrote an article for Country Life on Gleneagles dated 19th July 1919. In it he refers to the quality of the site and then says "After experts had been summoned and had pronounced favourably, it was decided to make two courses - an eighteen hole course and a nine hole one".  One of those experts could very well have included MacKenzie although I'd previously assumed it was just a reference to Braid given the evidence of the letter book.


Later in the article he says "I nearly forgot to say that James Braid was the architect, with the totally unnecessary assistance of the writer of this article." After that he gives a bit of an overview of the course as follows "The eighteen hole course measures 6,500 yards when fully stretched. At present there are four short holes, but the advisability of adding a fifth is under consideration."


A few weeks later in the 5th June 1919 Country Life, Darwin reports on the Gleneagles week which would have been the big opening. Darwin describes the main course as follows; "The two main characteristics of the course, apart from its insistent demand for power and accuracy, are two which also belong in some degree to Sandwich. There are glorious and terrifying carries from the tees, and there are winding valleys where one, out of sight of all the other players on the course, plays in a delicious silence and solitude broken only by the grouse. Captain Hutchison and Braid, who laid out the course, have built for themselves and enduring monument, and more especially they designed two or three holes that must always live in the memory."


Niall

[Simon Barrington]

No Problem and Thanks Niall,

Very glad to have discovered another Dr. Mackenzie find to share.

I only suggested "unsolicited" as we know Dr. Mackenzie was not shy in dropping in on courses and expressing a view.
I say so with some admiration of his hutzpah and innovation as I consider his "Hints" publication to be one of the first and most creatively successful forms of direct mail marketing in the "industry".
He will certainly have known of this marquee project, and most likely from Harry Colt.

He wasn’t put off by a bit of travel, and was possibly in Scotland pre-WWI on a few occasions.
We know he was up in Sutherland shooting stags sometime in 1912, probably had been up to St. Andrews ahead of his September 1913 nomination for membership (proposed by Colt), and potentially may have visited (relatively) nearby Blairgowrie (at that point a 9-holer) ahead of staking out his new 18 hole design in early 1914. (Source: The Mackenzie Chronology)

BTW - The Chronology notes one example of misunderstanding (or embellishment by someone) in its entry relating to Hazlehead (“Evening Telegraph” - 27th March 1923):
“Report states that the Aberdeen Town Council Finance Committee had unanimously approved the construction of a municipal golf course at Hazlehead from plans submitted by Dr. MacKenzie of Leeds, “of the well known firm of golf course architects, who had to do with Gleneagles and Lord Leverhulme’s new course near London”. (NB Lord Leverhulme’s course was Moor Park, designed by Harry Colt.)”

NB This was only a month before the dissolving of the Colt, Mackenzie & Alison design firm, and is the sole mention of Gleneagles in “The Chronology” (20th Revision - 2018)

The embellishment may have come from someone recalling the report that Neil Crafter very kindly shared with me from the “Glasgow Herald” (c.19th March 1921)?

They published a column from their golf correspondent who said that they had the pleasure of playing at Gleneagles recently...
 “with Dr Mackenzie, of Leeds, the famous golf course architect, and greatly enjoyed listening to his comments and criticisms of this much talked-of course.
Dr. Mackenzie has the advantage of knowing the character of the Gleneagles ground before the commencement of the course, and was not slow to recognise the magnitude of the operations that have been carried out, and the success that has attended them.
But what I specially liked was his whole-hearted appreciation of the work done by James Braid, who he regards as easily first among professionals who have tried their hand at lay-out on a large scale. Gleneagles is, in Dr. Mackenzie’s opinion, easily the best work ever done by Braid.
The opportunity was, of course, unique. Situation, surroundings, the undulating character of the ground, the scenic view that could be obtained at every other hole by judicious choice of foreground or perspective, and - not the small matter it is often represented to be to a golfer - the magnificent panorama of the surrounding mountains, all combined to make Braid’s opportunity. That he has grasped it sufficiently to arouse the enthusiasm of a brother artist like Dr. Mackenzie is no small tribute…”

The report goes on to say…
“…Here in Dr Mackenzie’s opinion, is the great opportunity for the Gleneagles Company. Extend the Queen’s to an eighteen-hole course on the scale of the present nine holes…”

This latter comment is interesting as the decision to extend The Queen’s had already been made in late 1919, and Braid’s work may have or was about to commence(d).

So was The Good Doctor trying to shoe-horn himself into that project with his praise? We will never know of course…perhaps a lost opportunity for a collaboration…

The Good Doctor’s visit to Gleneagles to play with the journalist was presumably around the time he was inspecting Pitreavie GC?


Nice to see in CKH’s own words the clear attribution to Braid. That IMHO settles any question in this regard.


Bernard Darwin’s report follows the standard social construct of the day, Gentlemen before Players.

It is also worth noting the CKH & Darwin were both Old Etonians, and played on the same Halford Hewitt Team for Eton on the second occasion of its playing in 1925.

Eton connections should be added to the tightly controlled world of Golf influence exerted by Oxbridge.

Other contemporaneous Old Etonians included: CKH’s great friend and future design partner Guy Campbell, Angus Hambro (R&A Rules Committee), Robert Maxwell (who beat CKH in a celebrated Amateur Championship Final in 1909) and several other International players.

I did find a reference in the Perthshire Advertiser where they described “Mr. James  Braid”, which was a description of a Professional unheard of at that time. But not that surprising as Braid’s modest and insightful opinion did affect and impress paupers, peers, press, Prime Ministers and Princes alike!

Cheers

[Niall C]

Simon


I don't think there was ever any doubt that Braid was/is the architect of record for both the Kings and the Queens, the question has always been how much input did Hutchison have ? In the same way Tom Doak is the acknowledged architect for any Renaissance designs but he will be the first to say his associates also deserve credit.


FWIW I took Hutchisons comment as modesty on his part. However in terms of Darwins comment, could it be interpreted that he's saying Braid laid out the course, and that they (CKH and Braid) both built the courses ? As for MacKenzie providing an unsolicited report, I'm not at all convinced. Yes, he probably travelled to Scotland on a fairly regular basis pre-WWI what with his family, golf and design commissions etc but I can't see him visiting a relatively remote site on spec and then providing an unsolicited report.


Niall

[Tom_Doak]

If Braid made nine trips during construction, then it is very hard to argue that the credit belongs elsewhere.


For me, that trumps press reports entirely.  My associates designed the Stoatin Brae course [I know you hate the name, Niall] in Michigan without any involvement from me, and that was part of the story, yet I have seen numerous press reports crediting me with the course, and even when they get it right they may say "Tom Doak's team" instead of listing them by name.  Bottom line is that in the press, the bigger name always gets the credit, deserved or not.

[Simon Barrington]

If Braid made nine trips during construction, then it is very hard to argue that the credit belongs elsewhere.

Hello Tom,

Thanks, the nine trips by Braid were in the first year of the project alone, and we know he continued to re-visit after that throughout WWI and on through until the changes in routing & bunkering of both courses (which I detailed earlier) were complete c.1924.

I don't have access to the Braid ledgers myself, but will see if I can get a total number of visits by him for the entire project, just out of personal interest (as I think the point ought to be proven enough for most by now).

More generally for others consideration, the question I raised (seeing the repeated assertions of others) was not if CKH was involved, but whether he should get equal or even higher credit than his mentor and the "lead architect" at Gleneagles, James Braid.

I don't think either billing for CKH survives scrutiny, and the few assertions that others hang onto were made not contemporaneously, but afterwards for varying reasons.The logistics, the few (if any) mentions of CKH pre-War, the earlier (Glasgow Herald) quotes from Dr. Mackenzie, and CKH's own words (Country Life) all point to it being predominantly Braid's work (with CKH capably assisting in late 1913, early 1914, and in final pre-opening bunkering tweaks in 1919 when he returned from War).

Gleneagles was, and remains, some of James Braid's very best work.
He was capable of really exceptional work, but I know I don't need to convince you of that, given your appreciation of St. Enodoc and Pennard!

I have found numerous quotes from notable professionals (US & UK) and reviewers of the day lauding the King's Course in the same consideration as Pine Valley, as well as on an equal footing to Sunningdale, Walton Heath & Sandwich.

The continued existence of doubt (and desire to diminish) as to Braid's input (at Gleneagles and elsewhere) is the bit I find fascinating.

It confirms to me that the social biases of "The Golden Age" may persist.
Perhaps that is understandable, because the literature and press reports of the time that we refer back to, are steeped in belief/opinion that only those of the educated classes were able to raise the Art so high.
Those same words having been written by those individuals from within an astonishingly tight grouping (Oxbridge, & Eton) and by some who were competing with those same professionals.

The one significant voice who seemed to stay well above the fray in that regard was H. S. Colt, as of course did James Braid himself.

There is a tendency of some today to champion certain (talented) architects above others, but that is where I differ as I think they ALL need to be celebrated and understood for the contributions each may have made to individual projects, and the Art.
Most certainly not by diminishing others.

I believe CKH was a very capable and evidently a quick study as a designer, his later solo and partnership work indicates that and shares so many "Braid" characteristics.
He was rightly well-considered following an impressive Amateur playing career and his service in WW1, so the support of others in him starting up his own design practice after the war was both understandable and welcome.

The fact that CKH reached out later to James Braid for his assistance when he was tasked with remodelling "The Ailsa" at Turnberry further confirms my understanding that they had a continuing and deep respect for each other. It speaks volumes.

That is what I observe (from afar) in your "Renaissance" Teams, and more broadly from other "stables" too, in this current collaborative period of design which rightly celebrates the inputs of many (assistants, shapers, bunker builders etc.) rather than just the "lead architect". Long may that spirit persist.

To continue my fascination, I suggest that the very best course design work of Golf Professionals; James Braid, Tom Williamson, Jack & Archie Simpson, and the so-called penal champion JH Taylor (Frilford Heath, Burnham & Berrow, Flempton etc.) is still very much underestimated in its importance and quality, especially here in the UK.

Furthermore, two other Scottish Professional's do not seem to be similarly ill-considered; Willie Park Jnr. & Donald Ross.Why? Perhaps because they thrived and worked so successfully in the US, and as such lost that pervasive UK-centric social class distinction?

Lastly, returning to architectural matters, I thought you and others may like this quote I found from J.H. Taylor regarding the bunkers at Gleneagles in 1920:

     “Deep, forbidding and sombre, they stand out in all their terribleness as a warning and danger signal to those who pass by on the way. Placed with diabolical cunning they suck in shots that stray.”

Cheers

[Adam Lawrence]

The Ams v Pros thing wasn’t _just_ a question of snobbery, although that unarguably played a large part. Shortly before WW1 there was a campaign, led by Taylor, to persuade the golfing authorities that laying out of courses was ipso facto work for professionals, and therefore if anyone accepted money for course design, they should be considered a professional. He obviously knew this would be fatal for the likes of Colt and Fowler, who would therefore have been forced to withdraw from the industry. It was a turf war, pure and simple.

Taylor was also brutally critical in print of a number of courses designed by leading  ‘amateur’ architects — he was incredibly rude about Colt’s new Eden course in St Andrews. I have to say that the more I read about Mr Taylor, the less I like him.

[Simon Barrington]

The Ams v Pros thing wasn’t _just_ a question of snobbery, although that unarguably played a large part. Shortly before WW1 there was a campaign, led by Taylor, to persuade the golfing authorities that laying out of courses was ipso facto work for professionals, and therefore if anyone accepted money for course design, they should be considered a professional. He obviously knew this would be fatal for the likes of Colt and Fowler, who would therefore have been forced to withdraw from the industry. It was a turf war, pure and simple.

Taylor was also brutally critical in print of a number of courses designed by leading  ‘amateur’ architects — he was incredibly rude about Colt’s new Eden course in St Andrews. I have to say that the more I read about Mr Taylor, the less I like him.

J.H. Taylor and James Braid were great friends, but like really great friends they could disagree about things and not lose the friendship.

Taylor was very much the strident shop-steward of the PGA which he help found with Braid and others as the Professionals were threatnened at many Clubs with losing revenue from club-making and sales of balls & equipment. Clubs often led by affluent members saw the business opportunities and wished to take over such activities. There were very few Pro's who could make enough money to live from playing appearances or tournament winnings back then.

So they organised and Taylor was the first Chairman and Braid the first Captain (a role he did 5 times).
Taylor was quite the orator and came from austere roots (he used to garden for, clean Horace Hutchinson's boots and caddy for him at Westward Ho!). He was a strong man of purpose and conviction, he led the PGA to become an important force in the game, and set up the Artisan Movement.

Taylor was the most vocal supporter of "scientific" and/or "penal" architecture, the desire to see poor shots punished in proportion to the poorness of stroke. A desire that has consistently affected how Pros (The PGA Tour especially) wished to see courses set-up, and as characterised today by Tyrell Hatton (if you recall his comments at Troon) and other professionals. The desire for "fairness" and reduction of chance.


John L Low led the "strategic" arguments (in numerous letters to newspapers and golfing press, and not least in "Concerning Golf"), Bob Crosby has written extensively on this, and I believe is writing a Book about Low.

What is not often commented on is that Braid was, even though very close to Taylor and Captain of the PGA, was very much his own man in such debates, largely keeping his own counsel that is until he wrote "Advanced Golf" 1908 which expounds innovative and strategic design principles.

One of the most famous and fierce debates, was around changes to The Old Course for the 1905 Open (that were put in place by a R&A Committee including John L Low, Herbert Fowler and if I recall correctly HS Colt?) and many Pros expecially Taylor were very vocal in damning as "unfair".

However, Braid was asked, as the Champion Golfer, about the changes to the course and he replied; “In my opinion the new bunkers put in greatly improved the course, and the only fault with them is being too small. You certainly have to use more thought than before as to the direction of your drive, but this is surely as it should be on a course when playing for a championship”.

One of the many reasons (most of all being what he wrote about design, and then put on the ground) James Braid should be considered a key figure in the bridge between "Penal" and "Strategic" design.


Cheers

P.S. In 1950 Both Taylor and Braid were both granted Honorary Membership of the R&A, along with Wiliie Auchterlonie the first Professionals to be so honoured.

[Niall C]

If Braid made nine trips during construction, then it is very hard to argue that the credit belongs elsewhere.


For me, that trumps press reports entirely.  My associates designed the Stoatin Brae course [I know you hate the name, Niall] in Michigan without any involvement from me, and that was part of the story, yet I have seen numerous press reports crediting me with the course, and even when they get it right they may say "Tom Doak's team" instead of listing them by name.  Bottom line is that in the press, the bigger name always gets the credit, deserved or not.

Tom


With a name like that I'm not surprised you wanted nothing to do with the project  . As an aside, there was mention of True Blue on the US Top 100 thread with more than a few critical of the name. It's actually a course I've played and was proud to buy and wear the tee-shirt (up until the point it became too small  ) so it maybe shows that name preferences might depend on your cultural perspective.


Anyway, agree that the number of visits paid by the architect is a lot more relevant than trying to decipher great meaning in a newspaper article when none was likely intended.


Niall

[Niall C]

The Ams v Pros thing wasn’t _just_ a question of snobbery, although that unarguably played a large part. Shortly before WW1 there was a campaign, led by Taylor, to persuade the golfing authorities that laying out of courses was ipso facto work for professionals, and therefore if anyone accepted money for course design, they should be considered a professional. He obviously knew this would be fatal for the likes of Colt and Fowler, who would therefore have been forced to withdraw from the industry. It was a turf war, pure and simple.

Taylor was also brutally critical in print of a number of courses designed by leading  ‘amateur’ architects — he was incredibly rude about Colt’s new Eden course in St Andrews. I have to say that the more I read about Mr Taylor, the less I like him.

Adam,


That's an interesting comment on your appreciation of Taylor diminishing the more you find out about him. For me it is the other way round. That's not to say that I agree with his every opinion or point of view, but in a number of respects his achievements in setting up and promoting the PGA overshadow that of Braid and Vardon. As you say it was a turf war, so can you blame him in coming out swinging when he's up against guys who were making the rules on amateurism to suit themselves ?


As an aside, and regarding the Eden course, I'm sure I've seen his comments but can't recall whether he was critical about the course or the designer, or perhaps both ? If he was simply critical of the design (possibly not enough cross-hazards ?) then critical acclaim for the course through the ages would seem to prove him wrong, however his fearlessness and frankness would surely have made him a welcome addition to this Discussion Board if he was still alive today, would it not ?


Niall 

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