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Dan Moore

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Chicago Area Aerials
« on: May 16, 2006, 11:09:25 PM »
Is anyone aware of a good source for Chicago area aerials from the teens, 20's and/or 30's?  
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Jeff Goldman

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2006, 11:27:44 PM »
Dan,

There are at least 3 that I know of.  First, 2 are on the internet.  The university of Illinois has digitized aerials taken from 1938-1941 as part of a new deal program.  I don't have the website right at hand, but it is easy to find and easy to manuver with.  I found aerials of Olympia Fields, Beverly, Ravisloe and a bunch of others.

Second, is http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/nsdihome/webdocs/ilhap/

Which is also a digital archive of Illinois aerials, but harder to manuver with.

Finally, you might try Chicago Aerial Photographic Services, which has archived aerial photos, though I don't know how far back they go.

I'm out of town for a couple days, but when I get back if you haven't found it I can send you the easily searchable site.

Jeff Goldman
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wsmorrison

Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2006, 07:14:51 AM »
Jeff,

I am very interested in getting early aerial photographs of Pine Meadow, the Lasker estate-especially Mill Road Farm golf course and Glen View Club.  I tried the digital archive at the website you posted but found it too difficult to find anything.  Please let me know the more user-friendly website when you have the time.
Thanks,
Wayne
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2006, 06:30:20 PM »
Quote from: Shivaschmidt on May 16, 2006, 11:18:27 PM
Dan, you've mentioned Chicago a few times and Langford a few times....

...are you from around here?

Sorry, but I don't know of any good sources, but there's an old dude on the south side who owns a golf shop who has a TON of history ... I just forget his name.

Shiv,

I live in Chicago near the river and Wilson Ave.  Grew up in Wisconsin and have an interest in Lawsonia and Langford since I have often visited the Green Lake area which in fact I'm doing over the Memorial Day weekend.  
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wsmorrison

Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2006, 06:35:16 PM »
Craig Disher was able to find the user-friendly site and was able to locate all the photographs I was looking for.  Craig always comes to the rescue.  The photos from the site are better in quality than my existing photos.  Thanks for the help!
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2006, 09:09:31 PM »
Great.  Could you share address of the easy site where you found the aerials.  Thanks
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RSLivingston_III

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2006, 09:49:41 PM »
Dan,
Here is a source for some more aerials:
http://images.library.uiuc.edu/projects/aerial_photos/
I was just up at Lawsonia last weekend with a member from Blythfield ( GR MI). First trips for both of us. Gary Zimmerman (Dir. of Golf) was very interested in our visit and discussions did include the idea about starting a Langford Society group. I believe you brought it up first here?
If you would like to procceed with it let me know and I can forward you his contact info. His name is Roger Hill and he has been researching the history of his club, basically functioning as the acting club historian.
After visiting Lawsonia and seeing the structure left at Marquette, I want to join the club. He/they did some wonderful work.
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wsmorrison

Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2006, 09:50:43 PM »
Dan,

I don't know the site, Craig sent me the photo files directly.  I'll see if I can get him to post the website.  He said it wasn't much easier than the linked site, which I found very difficult to navigate.
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2006, 11:49:53 PM »
Thanks Wayne I had the same problem.  

ps.  I still intend to get you some Pine Meadow photos, just haven't had time to get out there yet this year.  
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Tim_Cronin

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2006, 01:20:18 AM »
Wayne,
That U of Illinois site only has Chicago-area photos for the south half of Cook County and for Will County. How did you find photos of Mill Road Farm and St. Mary of the Lake (Pine Meadow), which are in Lake County?
Love to see 'em, and to be pointed in a direction for more!
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wsmorrison

Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2006, 07:26:44 AM »
Since they're in the public domain, I'll post the Mill Road Farm photo (hope you don't mind, Craig); it was a terrific golf course sadly dozed for housing.  The Pine Meadow photograph was taken in the middle of summer and the grasses seem so dried its hard to make anything out so I won't bother with that.  It appears that there are few if any fairway bunkers.  The Glen View Club picture was better in scale although not quality than the one Craig obtained from the National Archives.

Mill Road Farm Golf Course:




It is clear that there was some tree planting to segregate the holes on the western portion of the golf course with less planting on the eastern portion which was already forested to some extent.  There are some similarities in bunker patterns with Boca Raton South, Indian Creek and a bit of Shinnecock.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2006, 07:27:36 AM by Wayne Morrison »
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2006, 08:45:19 AM »
Wayne,

Good stuff!  Thanks for posting, as I just drove by the site the other day. I should have stopped.

The photo does show planting on the east side, with some small trees added between the natural trees and the fw on one of the holes in the NE part of this photo.  Look at the apparent par 5 just NW of the circular grove of trees on the right.  I also spy the few open areas filled in heavily with trees, as if the open area is completely undesireable.

On the west side, it shows planting too close to the fw - not recognizing the full canopy of the mature tree, as is typical, and a good example of why so many courses are now over treed.

Lastly, note how the wooded east side apparently has greener fairways than the open west.  These must have irrigation, but I suspect that the system couldn't deliver all the water necessary in July 1939, and so the west side, exposed to prairie winds, is a bit drier.
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wsmorrison

Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2006, 08:57:04 AM »
Nice catch on the different color fairways, that escaped me.  The hole you mentioned is the 14th and was designated at times a par 4 and other times as a par 5 at 460 yards.  The course was approximately 7000 yards par 70 or 72 and opened in 1926.  That was one tough golf course.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2006, 09:53:28 AM »
Wayne,

For that matter, check the open farms north of the west nine.  The swales are wet and the hills are dry, indicating a recent rain and the course should be just drying out as well.

Were there firm and fast conditions that day?
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2006, 09:53:56 AM »
One last thing - Is that a narrow practice fw just west of what I presume to be the ninth hole?
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Dan Kelly

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2006, 11:52:13 AM »
Is this the Lasker estate course?

What's the road at the top (north, I presume)?
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wsmorrison

Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2006, 06:18:00 PM »
Jeff,

Craig and I were thinking the same thing, that it is a practice hole west of the 1st hole with the alternate tees.  The course started away from the main house, north near the street you can see a small building--that was the "pro shop".  
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wsmorrison

Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2006, 06:20:35 PM »
Dan,

It is the Lasker estate course.  That road is/was Everett Road.
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Dan Kelly

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2006, 11:21:18 PM »
Quote from: Wayne Morrison on May 18, 2006, 06:20:35 PM
Dan,

It is the Lasker estate course.  That road is/was Everett Road.

Wayne --

Thanks. Then my wife grew up somewhere in the upper right portion of the course.

My mother-in-law has been under the impression that the clubhouse was just south of Everett Road, to the west of that entrance road. Is that right?
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

wsmorrison

Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2006, 06:16:17 AM »
That's exactly right, Dan.  The clubhouse/pro shop was to the left (west) of the estate road just off Everett.  In Dan Wexler's book he understandably had the start of the course closer to the big house and got the routing progression wrong.  Given the little information he had available to him, he did a remarkable job with yardages and such.  He is a great researcher.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2006, 09:59:55 AM »
Dan or Wayne,

Where was the golf course relative to I 94, Waukegan Rd, etc.?
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Eckstein

Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2006, 01:05:18 PM »
What is the source for the Mill Road photo?? I'm looking for aerials of other Chicago courses.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2006, 07:17:22 PM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on May 19, 2006, 09:59:55 AM
Dan or Wayne,

Where was the golf course relative to I 94, Waukegan Rd, etc.?

First time to quote myself, but I found the site on the Google aerial.  They kept the original entry road to the main house, and named it Estate Drive in the land planning for the subdivision.  There is also a fairway drive and a bowling green drive, suggesting it was a multi activity estate.

You can also see the difference after all these years of the native tree masses vs. the areas planted with newer trees after the subdivision took over.  Its subtle, but its there.

BTW, in my internet searches, I found a site dedicated to an architect who apparently designed many of the "hobby farms" that the ultra wealthy Chicagoans had, which might explain the Mill Road "Farm" title of the golf course.

Dan,

Did your wife grow up on Arcady, Fairway, Oak Knoll, William, or Lawrence Ave?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2006, 07:22:52 PM by Jeff_Brauer »
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Dan Kelly

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2006, 09:47:57 PM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on May 19, 2006, 07:17:22 PM
Dan,

Did your wife grow up on Arcady, Fairway, Oak Knoll, William, or Lawrence Ave?

Arcady. About, I'm guessing (I'll walk if off next time I'm there), 350-400 yards south of Everett. What wonderful hole did their house destroy?
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tim_Cronin

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Re:Chicago Area Aerials
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2006, 11:31:40 PM »
Wayne,
Thanks for posting. Great stuff! The Lake Forest Historical Society has a large irrigation map of Mill Road Farm which I consulted for a story on the estate a few years ago. The holes were numbered but didn't have yardages. I don't believe Wexler saw that nor this aerial.
Lasker's estate and about a dozen other buildings from that era still existed a few years ago.
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