Crooked Stick #74? What a Joke!!

[Glenn Spencer]

I just got back from playing the Open qualifier at Crooked Stick and while it did not go the way I had wanted, I came away from the golf course with a great respect for it. I thought it was a marvelous test of golf that was extremely difficult at times, yet 100% fair. Some of the holes are quite intimidating off the tee, but there is an opportunity to succeed. I think the par 3's are fabulous, with #6 being the best of them all. I would like to hear about ten par 3's in America better than this. The course was so wet, we really did not get to see the par 5's play properly, but I could see liking them a lot. The par 5 5th was a true three-shot hole at 621. The use of the land was great and nothing seemed to be wasted or superfulous. #14 is a great example of a Cape Hole with the creek running down the left and #16 has a green that is hard not to compare to #9 at Yale. A blind-tee shot on #7 and then an iron to an elevated green with falloffs everywhere. The course featured a lot of false fronts I noticed. The one thing that surprised me was that long seemed to be the place to mis it on just about every hole. I don't think I will ever forget the horshoe green with about 20 feet of elevation on #15. This is a top thirty-five golf course in my opinion and an unbelieveable place. I can't see some of the courses ranked ahead of it. #18 Muirfield- Stick 9-1 out of 10. #21 Victoria- 7-3 Stick. #29 Bethpage 6-4 Stick. #32 Honors 6-4 Stick. #33 Kinloch haven't played, I will take Crooked Stick though. Shouldn't this course have some history or something before being ranked ahead of great golf courses like Crooked Stick? #46 Garden City- 5-5  two different types of golf, I could live with either. #45 Rich Harvest Links- I would have a tough time believing it is better than what I just saw at CS. #50 Castle Pines from TV, I will take Stick 9-1 or 10-0. #51 The Golf Club- I thought these were cut from the same cloth, although it has been a long time. 5-5. #57 Camargo 7-3 Stick. # 59 Scioto- 7-3 Stick. #68 Double Eagle- 9-1 Stick. #63 Prince Course- I can't imagine it being nearly as special. #70 Valhalla- please 10-0 Stick. Any thoughts on why this course is continuing to fall of the ranking radar?

[PThomas]

Glenn - fwiw, I  haven't played there yet but in his COnfidential Guide Tom D stated that he felt that Dye has tinkered too much with the course, that the major changes he made there look out of place..he did still give it a 7

[Glenn Spencer]

I would really like to know what he is referring to then. I have certainly seen a few good golf courses and I can't think of any that were prettier or harder or more thought-provoking than this place. I don't see why someone is supposed to like Inverness any better. Crooked Stick has it all!! The natural beauty of the place is amazing. Muirfield Village couldn't hold a candle to this place. I would really like to have anyone play a match play game with Crooked Stick, it would be really hard to beat and that is with spotting the entire country the first hole, it is just a warm-up hole.

[Jordan Wall]

Last year the Solheim Cup was at CSGC and it proved a fun event to watch.

[George Pazin]

Glenn, have you played Bulle Rock, Mystic Rock or Pete Dye Golf Club? If so, how does it compare?

[Glenn Spencer]

George,

I have not had a chance to see any of those. I would like to get down and see Pete Dye. I have seen probably about ten of his courses, I don't know. I really like The Ocean Course. I felt like Crooked Stick and The Golf Club had a lot of similarities, plus the fact that I loved both of them.

[Andy Troeger]

Its been quite awhile since I played Crooked Stick but I know it was probably as good as anything I had played at the time and certainly is still one of the best I've played. I agree with Glenn's assessment that the par threes as a whole are wonderful, with #13 being also great and not yet mentioned. I also liked the 9th, a good par five.

[Ken Fry]

Andy,

You mention hole #9.  I've heard many times this hole was much better before some of the course tinkering refered to earlier occured.  Could anyone in the know explain this hole's changes further?

Ken

[Glenn Spencer]

I would like to hear that as well. I liked 9 a lot. 13 was cool, it is just  so hard to get past 6. What a golf course and experience. Don't think I have ever played 18 holes without thinking about women or money before. It is a special place.

[Andy Troeger]

Glenn,
 FWIW, I agree with you that 6 was my favorite of the par threes, I just wanted to make sure 13 got some credit too as it hadn't been mentioned. I actually should be praising #3 as I went 2-3 on it, much better than my showing on any other hole there

[Matt Rossman]

Glenn, I played Crooked Stick 5 years ago in a U.S Am qualifier and I will have to agree with you for the most part. I was very impresses with the course, with the pra 3's being the best part. #6 and #17 are to great Par 3's. Although i have not played all the courses on your list, but the two I have played are The Honors and Camargo. I side with you in thinking that CS is much better than the Honors, but in my opinion Camargo is a far greater course. Camargo to me is a very special place and in my opinion my favorite course i have played.

[Glenn Spencer]

Matt,

I agree, Camargo is sweet! I like it too, just a few too many copy holes for my taste. My favorite part of Camargo is actually the par 4's 4,10 and 18 are as good as you can do in my mind!! I will do a match play without knowing right now, let me know where anyone differs.

1 Camargo easily 1dn
2 Stick easily AS
3 Stick 1up
4 Camargo, but barely AS
5 Camargo 1dn
6 Stick so easily AS
7 Stick 1up
8 Halved
9 Stick 2up
10 Camargo 1up
11 Stick 2up
12 Halved
13 Stick 3up
14 Stick dormie 4
15 Camargo
16 Stick 3&2
17 Halve
18 Camargo

Crooked Stick is tough to beat!!

[Matt Rossman]

Just going through those holes brought back nightmares. I was playing Camargo during the U.S Am qualifier they labeled "greenskeepers revenge. I was fortunate enough to be paired with Hunter Mahan that day. We both hit our second shots on #6 to a front left pin and watched them snuggle up to about 5 feet then see them pick up speed and roll off in to oblivian. I agree with many of your observations, i would have to say that I am a big fan of 7, 8, and 9 at Camargo though

[Glenn Spencer]

Matt,

I agree with you that the par 3's aare the strength, but I am just starting to realize now, how much I like the par 5's considering there are 4 of them. I hate #11 as I doubled it twice, but I really think that is a great, great par 5. 15 is super cool and I think the ones on the front are just solid golf holes that can be very exciting, the second shot on 5 is really cool, having to clear that bunker. The more I think about that golf course, the more I like it, I can't find any holes, and normally I feel like I am really tough critic-see Arthur Hills thread. Crooked Stick really has me impressed. Another thing Matt, our practice round 4, we all heard how it set up for John Daly and the fairways were super-wide and all of this. I thought it was tight as kind be, maybe the 7-inch break your wrist rough was a factor though.

[Phil Benedict]

Matt,

... we all heard how it set up for John Daly and the fairways were super-wide and all of this.

It's been a while but my recollection is that it played wide for Daly because he was hitting it in places no one was expected to reach.  I don't think it was wide where everyone else was driving.  The buzz before that tournament was what a bear the course was going to be.  Daly at Crooked Stick is a unique example of a guy overpowering a course.  Nothing else like it other than Tiger at the '97 Masters.

[Tim Liddy]

It is one of my favorites.
Golf Hole #8 is the biggest challenge on the front; a tough drive over the edge of a lake and a no bail-out on the green approach- water left and bunker right.  The bunker shaping is very good and somewhat “English” looking with very flat horizon lines.  It makes the golf course appear much older than it is.  It was great to see Paula Creamer shoot 31 (or 32?) on the front in the Solhiem Cup, unbelievable!

[Glenn Spencer]

Tim,

8 is gorgeous and hard!! I think my favorite challenge on the front beside #6 is #7, I just thought that was a marvelous golf hole and I loved the tee shot and the approach. I just spoke with my caddie and alll he could talk about was getting his game ready for the 2009 Senior Open at Crooked Stick. I really don't understand how this golf course is allowed to be rated 74, it is such a sham. Muirfield Village should just do the right thing and offer to switch places with Crooked Stick. 18th would seriously be about right. AS far as golf 'experiences' I would think it right up there in the top 10 in the country. Nothing beats having a beer in that mens grill looking out at 18.

[Glenn Spencer]

Phil,

You are correct and Daly was able to take advantage of some of the holes. The assistant told me that they played it at about 7170 for the PGA, we played it at 7374 and there were a couple of tees moved up on 8,16 and something else, oh 17 was only playing 208 instead of 220. The scorecard has a set of back tees at 7516. Another hole that was up was 18, but this makes that hole a lot harder as the water and the deep,deep grass bunker are right in the landing area. Oh, another tee that was up was 10, I don't even know how you can see anything from over there, that tee looked nasty, not far back, but the angle with the water would have been totally different.