McGregor Links, Dev Emmet

[Steve Curry]

 , underfunded and overplanted with Condos but still full of character and on a sandy spot.  Beautiful old clubhouse and some great holes on great terrain.







Photos are off, sorry light sensor broken...

Cheers,
Steve

[ed_getka]

Steve,
   Thanks for the post. I like the way the greens look to lay on the land. What sort of drive time would you estimate from there to Leatherstocking?

[Steve Curry]

Ed,

McGregor is in Saratoga so,about 2-2.5 hours, also worth seeing, near by are Mohawk and Schyluer Meadows.

Steve

[Scott Witter]

Steve,

The Saratoga/Albany area is a real hot spot for Mr. Emmet.  I lived in Saratoga Springs for 7 years in the late 80's and early 90's and enjoyed many a round at McGregor as well as the other Emmet courses.  McGregor has some nice character, but honestly much has been lost due to poor maintenence over the years.  It is still there mind you underneath the trees and all and I would love to be involved with rescuing it.  The terrain is clearly its strength and how Emmet used it to good advantage in spots.  I think Mohawk CC is a better layout by him and possess some really strong holes.

[Michael Stefanik]

McGregor was a great golf course until the condos were put in. The condos ruined the golf course water wells in the first fairway. The holes used to be great all individually tree lined and felt like each hole was a new adventure. The seventh hole is still great. I believe it was Hogan who sayed it was the best hole he had ever played.

[Ted Kramer]

My buddy lived in one of those condos for a while and belongs to the club. I always had a lot of fun out there. A few of the holes are really outstanding . . .

I could see the course being improved a great deal by someone who has a good sense of tree removal and how it can help in a restoration type process. The "bones" of the course are very solid.

-Ted

[Steve Curry]

Michael,

7 is very strong as are 3,4,5 and 6.  And yes the debris pile mounds surrounding the well heads on 1 is a travesty.

Scott,

The last I played Mohawk, there were trees in greenside banks and mushy shaded Poa under them can't get that outta my head.  Though it has been a couple of years...

Schuyler Meadows is probably the best in the area.

Although I would probably go out on a limb and say that 3 and 7 at McGregor are probably two of the best Emmet holes I have seen.

Best,
Steve


The pics are of 3,6,7 and 17

[Dave Bourgeois]

Steve,

Albany CC and Olde Kinderhook are also around.  I haven't been to Schyuler since college at Siena, but do you find that a better all around course than those two, or even Wilford's Roost (Tillinghast I think)?

[Steve Curry]

Dave,

I haven't seen Wolferts beyond the view from the clubhouse.  Albany and Kinderhook are distinctly different, modern.  Kinderhook is probably the strongest all around golf club I've seen in the greater Albany area, Schyuler probably the best classic.

Steve

[Steve Curry]

Dave,

Wow, I just thought again. CC of Troy, Travis is better than Schyuler.

Steve

[Dave Bourgeois]

For some reason I thought Renaissance golf had done some work on CC of Troy.  I've never been, but have always wanted to check it out.

[Geoffrey Childs]

I really like Emmet's work.

What strikes me about all of his courses is that even from the 6300 yard tees (which are likely to be the original distances), there are 445, 440, 430 yard par 4's on the front nine along with a 225 yard par 3.  The back nine has another 225 yard par 3 from the same 6300 yard tee boxes.  He mixes in some short par 4's and the result is great variety and much harder resistence to scoring then one would imagine for a course of that length.  This is a trademark that I really find quite nice especially given how long ago these courses were designed.

6300 yard set of tee boxes built on a modern course would not have a par 3 longer than 190 yards or a par 4 longer then 410.  The distances would be homogenized.  

(Top) Hats off to Dev!

[Steve Curry]

Dave,

You are right about the work and Troy is worth seeing, very classic and a great set of greens.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=18170;start=msg323190#msg323190

Geoff,

That's a great point and why his strong holes are very strong.  The 3rd at McGregor is a bear with the centerline of bunkers dissecting the hole and running the full length.

Damn camera...


Steve

[Dave Bourgeois]

Looking at the pics of McGregor again really makes me appreciate Bethpage Green.  What is interesting is how the green sites lay well with the terrain, and also how the material excavated to build the bunkers was used to add interest and contour around the greens.  I

The Green course also has a nice variety of short and long holes  similar to McGregor as Geoffrey points out.  I'll have to put mcGregor on the list next time I visit my parents!

[Steve Curry]

It’s interesting to note that the ridge on 6, second photo, that starts right of the green has been truncated.  It used to extend out in front of the green requiring a very delicate shot up and over the ridge to a blind green.

Steve

[Tom_Doak]

Steve:

Could MacGregor Links really be salvaged by some good restoration work?  I never went to see it because the two friends I had who'd played it both said it had been "ruined" years ago and they hated to go back.

And yes, we have done some work at CC of Troy, both in bunker rehab and taking down some trees.  Bruce Hepner has been doing the work there, I haven't seen it for some time now.

[Steve Curry]

Tom,

I think the condo plantings have negated ML's potential.  Something happened whereby they had to put the wellheads for some in the first fairway and the subsequent mounding to hide/protect them has only that reasoning.  Beyond condo removal and increased budgets it doesn't need much.  The natural green sites are wonderful.

Steve

[Mike_Trenham]

My father was a member there for two seasons in the early 60's when before he turned professional.  He says that the course has really been softened over the years.  Apparently the conditioning was similar to a combination of Pine Valley and Hidden Creek.  It was a very very dificult course with a number of good players.

[Scott Witter]

Tom,

There certainly are some quality features and characteristics worth saving/working on that, on their own would largely improve the historical character and integrity, but no doubt the impact from the condos has not been good.  I don't know  if I could agree with ruined...we all see things differently, but to me the quality of the topo and the good green sites give it merit for consideration.

I spoke with the Owner Mike S years ago and others I know have approached him also in the past, but he never seemed to understand, or appreciate the historical connection and the reasoning behind the effort.  Too bad, because the site is mostly if not all sand too!

[Steve Curry]

Scott,

I hope I didn't come off as though it were ruined.  I think its a great course with lots of character.  My comments were from the perspective of restoring it to its full potential.  If not for the housing and wellheads it could easily be restored to be one of the best classic courses around.

Have you played Saratoga Golf and Polo?

Steve

[Steve Hyden]

I played McGregor in a high school tournament many years ago and was utterly enchanted, growing up as I did on the Amsterdam Muny.  I went back a few years ago and was disgusted with the condo holes.  Anyone in upstate NY should play Teugega in Rome, an unsullied Donald Ross low-key gem.

[Brad Tufts]

I played MacGregor Links many times during my college career, as it is the home course (or one of) of the powerhouse Skidmore Golf Team.  The condos multiplied during the years I played there (something like 8-10 tournament days there), and the course changed from a forested step back in time to a bit of an eyesore.  

It seems to have always had a few too many trees, and the condos make some of the holes downright ridiculous.  One condo is literally 5 yards or less from the fairway, and at the bottom of a blind layup area on a par 5 no less.  

The bones of a good course may be there, but now its a waltz between the OB stakes and condos.  #s 3, 7 and 13 may be great holes, but 1, 2, 8, 10, 15!!!, and 17 are a bit funky.  The rest are just benign.

To be restored, you would need much more width, which on most holes has been turned into someone's backyard.

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