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mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wintonbury Hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« on: May 11, 2006, 04:06:59 PM »
I recently played this very fine design in Bloomfield, CT. The routing is excellent, much of it over flows over rolling terrain that leaves sidehill or slightly hanging lies. There are many remarkable par fours  such as 2, 6,11, and 14. Also some wide fairways make tee shot accuracy a key. On #6 central bunkering  and a stellar green complex form a great/fun hole. Compelling ground game options also
enliven many holes.

The  green complexes as well as the varied par threes are  splendid.Overall fun to play,serene wetlands beautify some portions of this expansive 280 acre site. Strong sense of place, at times one feels closer to rural  Quebec than to suburban Hartford .
« Last Edit: May 12, 2006, 07:46:30 PM by mark chalfant »

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wintonbury hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2006, 04:55:20 PM »
Mark,
Couldn't agree more.  I found WH to be a very fun course with a lot of challenging holes.  

It was great to play after seeing Brad Klein's presentation at Baltrusol on the course's construction.

Only drawback to me was that #9 and #18 seemed too similar.  No biggie, though!

And, I think it may be the best manicured muni I've ever played, including Torrey Pines.  (but I've still not played Bethpage Black).

To me, it shows that Tim Liddy has a great future in GCA.  

Pete Stankevich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wintonbury hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2006, 05:31:06 PM »
Dan:
#9 is a short par 3 and #18 is a medium length par 4.
I think you're referring to the 1st and 10th being very similar, right?  Both are pretty straightforward par 4's around the same length that run parallel to each other.  They get you away from the clubhouse area.  Then #2 and #11 are somewhat similar as well.  They are both uphill par 4's that get you into the upper part of the course.  And #3 and #12 are both 160ish yard par 3's that run somewhat parallel as well. These similarities on the first 3 holes of each side might ordinarily be annoying or boring on some courses, but not here.  They're all good golf holes and they get you out to the better ones!  
The course is always in great shape, plays fast and firm, and as Mark mentioned, there are some great holes out there.
Not overly long or difficult, but always makes for a fun and interesting day.  
« Last Edit: May 12, 2006, 12:25:19 AM by Pete Stankevich »

Tim Liddy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wintonbury hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2006, 06:19:28 PM »
The most interesting part of the project for me was working with Brad Klein over a period of 7 years to get the project developed. Can you imagine me; a Midwestern, Christian, conservative republican, and Brad, an east-coast, Jewish, liberal democrat becoming fast friends and going on several golf vacations together after the project was completed? Bush vs. Hillary. We had a few interesting dinner conversations. Working with a road contractor to build the golf course was also a challenge that took a strong team to overcome (and explains many of the simple bunkers).

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wintonbury hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2006, 06:43:05 PM »
Who was the contractor?
That was one hellacious beaver.

Alan Gard

Re:Wintonbury hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2006, 07:04:42 PM »
I think Mr. Chalfant's comment where he uses "wide fairways" and "tee shot accuracy" in the same sentence says a lot.  Wintonbury Hills is a course that looks wide open off the tee generally, leading one to just let it rip with the driver.  However, with the green positioning one needs to think more about position and accuracy is demanded.

The greens make this course to me.  They putt very true and are in excellent condition.  They have so many little subtleties that reading putts is a bit of a challenge.

The first 4 holes on each side are very similar in look, but they play enough differently that it isn't a problem.

On the whole, it is a very enjoyable course.  I also have to give credit to all those involved as it was done with what I suspect was a rather moderate budget.  

Now if only they'd get away from the cart being automatically included in the cost... :)

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wintonbury Hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2006, 10:01:03 PM »
Oh Tim, quit sucking up to Brad Klein!  I know someone who knows him and he says Klein is insufferable, inflexible and intractable.

I'll bet Klein's sitting in his Hartford digs plotting a top 100 architect's list of which I'm sure, based on WH, you'll be on and well ranked!  ;)

JC

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wintonbury Hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2006, 10:01:56 PM »
Mark,
It really is a great spot for golf with the layout, as you described, to match.

Tim or Brad,
You guys have probably mentioned it on another thread but I was wondering why you opted for no fringe. Actually, I was looking skyward and wondering this out loud last year when I was trying to decide whether to blade a wedge or toe a putter after my ball trickled up against the 'wall'.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wintonbury Hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2006, 08:25:24 AM »
Jonathan, you've been talking to my wife again!

Alan Gard, the cart is free, or at least we have one price for all, and you have the option of using it or not. It simplifies the pricing and tax collection to do it our way, and at $45 resident/$65 or so non-resident the fee is certainly moderate enough. The course is readily walkable, something of which about 15% of our golfers currently avail themselves, and if we we went to separate pricing we doubt that more than another 5% would walk.

Jim Kennedy, we never planned for an intermediate cut around the greens. This also simplifies maintenance, saves us some money, and since the rough around the greens is moderate enough it should not be a major playability issue. From the near rough around the collar I have no problem putting or chipping with a 7-wood.

Bill Vostinak, unfortunately, our grow-in superintendent, Gteg Dubois, who was with us through the first two seasons, has been recruited away to Portsmouth CC in New Hampshire (where his wife's family lives). We just went through an extensive national search and have hired Mark Mansur, formerly of Richter Park in Danbury, Ct., as our new superintendent. He starts any day now.

Mark Chalfant, thanks for the comments. You saw a lot, despite a rather bleak, cold and rainy, overcast day.

Tim Liddy is a great guy to work with, and he accommodated himself to a rather oddly harsh regulatory culture at the town and state levels to make the course work, weaving together holes around 91 acres of wetlands and under a powerline without a single forced carry of an approach shot into any green and minimal impact on tee shot carries.

As for the name of the golf course contractor, for some reason I cannot seem to recall it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2006, 08:25:53 AM by Brad Klein »

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wintonbury Hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2006, 10:46:38 AM »
Brad,
I didn't mean to suggest that it was a playability issue, I was just surprised to see it on a course with big greens.  
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wintonbury hills (Liddy/Dye) c. Hartford
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2006, 06:34:23 AM »
Dan:
#9 is a short par 3 and #18 is a medium length par 4.
I think you're referring to the 1st and 10th being very similar, right?  

Pete,
You're absolutely right - it was #1 and #10 that I was thinking of.  It's been a while since I played...  Thanks for the correction.