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Patrick_Mucci

Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2006, 03:03:05 PM »
Rich Goodale,

Don't pot bunkers inherently limit options ?  ;D

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2006, 03:08:30 PM »
Are there rakes at the Old Course?
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

ForkaB

Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2006, 03:17:06 PM »
Rich Goodale,

Don't pot bunkers inherently limit options ?  ;D

Any depression limits options.  A depression in which there are many little depressions (foot prints, divots, dog scrapes, etc.) limits them more.  As I implied above, if you really want to limit options, why not just fill the sucker with water?  Oops, I forgot, you've already done that at GCGC, or so I'm told...... :)

Patrick_Mucci

Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2006, 03:21:08 PM »
Rich Goodale,

Sad but true.

Especially if you saw the pictures circa 1936.

View the issue in the context that bunkers are no longer the hazards they were intended to be.

They're perfectly groomed with monotexturous sand specially imported from timbuctoo.

There's nothing wrong with bringing back the deep toothed rake and stymies.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2006, 03:23:05 PM »
Scott,

I agree with you partly but I also believe that how a person behaves on the course and follows etiquette is more important than handicap in deciding wether you are a good golfer or not. I was led to believe that correct golf was about repairing your own pitchmark and atleast one other not theres a divot that has not been replaced so why should I bother. There are always a few bad eggs in every basket so set the example and don't get dragged down to their level.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2006, 03:37:58 PM »
There's nothing wrong with bringing back the deep toothed rake ....

Has anyone in this thread opposed the deep-toothed rake?

I think it's the heavy-heeled heel we're trying to remedy -- isn't it?
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Mike_Cirba

Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2006, 04:04:41 PM »
There's nothing wrong with bringing back the deep toothed rake ....

I think it's the heavy-heeled heel we're trying to remedy -- isn't it?

Dan,

I can think of more than a few heavy-handed heels I'd like to remedy!   ;D

But seriously folks...take my wife...please!

In all seriousness, what's wrong with simply smoothing your footprints with your foot in the interest of courtesy?  That's what happened for years at PV and it seemed to work pretty well.  

I'm against any farm implements being utilized by golfers.  
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 04:10:50 PM by Mike Cirba »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2006, 04:24:20 PM »
In all seriousness, what's wrong with simply smoothing your footprints with your foot in the interest of courtesy?  That's what happened for years at PV and it seemed to work pretty well.  

I'm against any farm implements being utilized by golfers.  

That last line there would make a fine companion to Rick's line about canoes.

Maybe we should compile a catalog of Items That Have No Place on the Golf Course.

I'll add one: Anything that has ever been marketed as an aid to business efficiency has no place on the golf course.

What's wrong with smoothing footprints, as at Pine Valley? Nothing! Except that many of the fools who play at some of the places I play when I have no better alternative -- places often featuring HEAVILY sanded, DEEPLY sanded bunkers, with a firm foundation somewhere this side of China (maybe) -- would be considerably less proficient at smoothing footprints with their feet than they are with the farm implements thoughtfully provided by course managers. And I see no reason to rejoice at the prospect of hitting from some galoot's massive heel print. What fun is that?
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Mike_Cirba

Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2006, 04:47:52 PM »
That last line there would make a fine companion to Rick's line about canoes.

Maybe we should compile a catalog of Items That Have No Place on the Golf Course.

I'll add one: Anything that has ever been marketed as an aid to business efficiency has no place on the golf course.


Dan,

Personally, I'm all for uncertainty, unfairness, ridges, ripples, heel-marks, profanity-spewing caddies, boiling oil, snakes, WMD's, dethroned despots, dominant leather-clad women of ill repute, and just about anything else you can imagine in your nightmares as fair game within a bunker.  It's a hazard, not something akin to what where we spent time in kindegarten.

If you want to add a medieval torture device with that heavy rake to dig furrows in the bunker that's cool, too, but it should be utilized to beat the player over the noggin while he's trying to extricate himself.

Perhaps you think these are draconian measures, but think about what our golfing ancestors were going through on a daily basis in their non-golfing lives.  When they weren't being beheaded like Mary Queen of Scots, they were being drawn and quartered in the public square like William the Conqueror, or just lining up against the competing country/religion at 100 paces and charging with spears at each other.  

In contrast, a rugged bunker must have looked like a fun little penance to these folks.  

In our cushy lives, we thankfully don't face much in the way of danger and real peril on a regular basis.  So, it amuses me somewhat when I hear people complain that they had to play a golf shot from an unmanicured bunker.  

There's no excuse for lack of manners, and I think you can leave a bunker better than you found it if you try.  I just think we've gone waaaaayyyy to the other extreme of soft expectations and I can't support it.

BTW, other things that should never be found on a golf course include range-finders (I swear I'll walk in if anybody in my foursome ever pulls one out), iron-covers, carts with a pad for a scorecard and pencil, and ball retrievers.  

Peter Pallotta

Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2006, 04:57:32 PM »
Mike Cirba

have you by any chance spent much time in Chicago?

Don't know why I thought to ask that.

Maybe your "It's a hazard, not something akin to where we spent time in kindegarten" reminded me of a David Mamet play.

Great playwright; great line



Tom Huckaby

Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2006, 04:59:59 PM »
Why do I have the feeling that all those who want to ban rakes and play out of heelprints and the like have never actually done so?

Cirba, you're a public course guy at heart - I know you must have.

So while I'd agree we may have gone too far in the effort to make things fair and uniform, well... having experienced this type of bunker far too often in my past, I must say reverting to the lowest common denominator is not the answer either.

These are hazards yes, but they are meant to be played out of, not dropped out of.

TH

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2006, 05:00:54 PM »
Personally, I'm all for uncertainty, unfairness, ridges, ripples, heel-marks, profanity-spewing caddies, boiling oil, snakes, WMD's, dethroned despots, dominant leather-clad women of ill repute, and just about anything else you can imagine in your nightmares as fair game within a bunker.  

Mike --

I'm for all of those, too (some more than others) -- except heel marks.

P.S. Don't know quite what you mean about kindergarten -- having skipped that apparently seminal experience.

Oh, and I carry a ball retriever. What's your beef with ball retrievers? William the Conqueror didn't carry one?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 05:01:17 PM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Mike_Cirba

Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2006, 05:19:32 PM »
Dan,

I went back and forth on ball retrievers...I'm all for frugality, but ultimately say nay due to speed of play issues.

As far as the kindegarten reference, we used to have a big sandbox right in the corner of our classroom.  I'm not sure if that was universal and standard for kindegartens across the country, but perhaps in my case getting down and dirty with Susan Reining in a playful way colored my appreciation for the possibilities.  
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 05:21:05 PM by Mike Cirba »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How would you feel if you had to play out of this bunker?
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2006, 05:29:21 PM »
So what you're saying is ...

Susan Reining grew up to be a dominant leather-clad woman of ill repute?

Or maybe a WMD?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 05:37:10 PM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016