Lancaster CC before and after photos

[wsmorrison]

Ron Forse and Jim Nagle are working at Lancaster CC, a 1920 Flynn.  There work includes raising greens (12) in flood areas and remodeling bunkers.  Here are some examples of their work.  Forgive the quality of the photos, they were sent in MS Word and I converted them to jpegs in MS Paint.  I didn't know another method.

#12 before:



#12 after:



#13 before:



#13 after:



#17 before:



#17 after:

[Mark_Fine]

Wayne,
Do you know if they worked off old photos/aerials?  Also, who did the work before them as the changes seem significant.

[wsmorrison]

As you know, Lancaster probably changed more than any other club Flynn was associated with, most of it during his lifetime as he was the consulting architect throughout.  There were at least seven significant routing progression changes with numerous holes changed, lost and gained as well.  

There is plenty of archival material on-hand and the club and Forse Design has it all (originals or copies).  There are aerial photographs from the 1920s, early and late 1940s and beyond.  I would say they did work off old aerials given a cursory analysis, but you'd have to ask them.  As to who did the work before Forse and Nagle, it depends on which holes you talk about.  After Flynn's death most things were constructed in-house.  Some significant work was done by Bill Mellon, the superintendent, likely based upon the redesigns of William and David Gordon.  The altered 16th hole, done in 1966 is a replica of Flynn's 1st at Phila Country and replicated elsewhere.

[Mark_Fine]

Wayne,
Do you know if it was in house work that was changed by Forse on those pictures you showed?  No big deal, I was just wondering how it arrived at where it was before.  

[Wayne Freeman]

I was there a couple of years ago when they had major damage from flooding so I'm sure all these changes are for the better. The course is a real gem and should you ever have the opportunity to play it don't pass it up.

[wsmorrison]

Mark,

I cannot answer your question.  Perhaps Ron and Jim know.  I don't know what you're getting at, but like I said, a lot of construction work was done in-house and the Gordons were involved for a time.  As to who did the work in the photos, that would take a lot of time to figure out and I don't see the value.  As I said before, the evolutionary history of Lancaster CC is long and very complicated.

[Dan Kelly]

These pictures make me wonder:

What is the case to be made -- architecturally, aesthetically, golfily -- for super-white sand?

[Kirk Gill]

Can I be forgive for saying that, from a purely aesthetic standpoint and basing it purely on these photos..........I liked the look of those bunkers before? The color, the shapes, the surrounds......

[Bill_McBride]

Wayne, I have to confess abject ignorance of Flynn's courses and design style, don't think I've ever played one (growing up in the West and living in the South).  What was the typical bunker style he employed?

The reason I ask is that the older photos seem to show grass flashed bunkers and the newer sand flashed.  I know Ross did both; did Flynn?

Like Kirk Gill I think the older photos look pretty cool.  I'm sure there was a lot of renovation work you can't see in the photos (greens enlarged?  surrounds restored?), but the grass-flashed bunkers are okay - unless they were sand-flashed at birth and deteriorated over the years.

Thanks for your response to this question.

[wsmorrison]

Bill,

I'll be happy to answer your question regarding Flynn's bunker styles.  Over the 70 or 80 years since Flynn was building his golf courses, maintenance pracitices have changed on some of his courses resulting in a different look to his bunkering.  If you recently played the US Naval Academy course, where all the bunkers have been remodeled, you'd think he sometimes designed bathtub like bunkers with grass faces all around yet these are not the original style.  

Flynn had a variety of styles depending upon the kind of site he was working on.  The locale (seaside, parkland, mountain, etc) influenced the types of grasses he used (he was an early experty on turf for golf courses) and thus the finished look.  Flynn's bunkering at Indian Creek, Shinnecock Hills, Boca Raton, Atlantic City CC, etc had a certain style.  Flynn's bunkering at Merion, TCC in Brookline, Rolling Green, Philadelphia CC, etc all had sand flashed high on the faces.  He clearly liked visibility and the psychological effect it had on the golfer.  But not all of Flynn's bunkering on individual courses or in general were flashed all the way up with sand.  It was a general principal of his though.  I'll try and put together a photo montage of various Flynn bunkers so you can get a feel for them.  Its something I need to do for the layout of our book and I think it will demonstrate the variety of styles best.

[Dan Boerger]

Wayne - I found LCC to be a terrific course. What's your point of view on the new 9 and how they compliment (if they do) the original course? -Dan

[Jason Mandel]

Lancaster is my favorite Flynn in the GAP.  It's combination of short holes, long holes and terrific topography make it a joy to walk around and play.  Some fantastic greens as well.  

I had thought that Gil hanse had previously done a lot of the bunker work there but I could be wrong.

Jason

[wsmorrison]

Jason,

Gil did do a master plan for Lancaster.  It seems the construction work was problematic, some grassing issues around the bunkers were not taking well and some of the older greens didn't drain well.  The present work remediated these problems.

[wsmorrison]

Sean,

I'm not sure how much of an impact flooding had on the changes.  Seems to me that the greens that were raised were done so because of drainage issues and there were drainage problems (from rains as well as floods) and stones in the bunkers from construction mistakes that were changed as well.

[wsmorrison]

Good call, Sean.  I think that tree (above ground and below) must have been a nightmare for the bunker maintenance.

[JNagle]

Work was done at the club a number of years ago with the Master Plan, by Gil, as a guide.  We are not sure whether the work was carried out in-house or with a contractor and if Gil was involved.  We have been told that he was not involved.

The bunkers began to fail not long after reconstruction.  Contamination from soil impacted the sand and drainage.  Most of the bunkers were lowered below the original floor and the excavated material was built into the surrounds giving it a very artificial, built-up look.  The grasses did not perform well at all.  The bunker color in the "before" photos had alot to do with soil contamination.  We are not crazy about the white sand, especially on old courses, but we are not the ones who have to play out of them.  We provide our input to sand type and color, but ultimately the Clubs decide.

The 12th green has always been an issue as it sat low (little to no air movement) and the sub-surface drainage was slightly above to same elevation as the stream.  The green was raised 12-14 inches and rebuilt.  Photos were used for the bunkers on holes 12 and 17.  Hole 13 was added at a later date.

This was a pilot project for LCC and has been deemed very succesful by the members.  We will continue this fall with the Meadow Course and next year follow with the remaining holes on the Dogwood.  

Lancaster has been changed a great deal over the years.  It is  impossible to go back to the original Flynn and the Club is not looking to do that.  They want the best course they can get that remains sensetive to the old photos and works with what they have now.  We are using the old photos and a couple of plans as material to guide us through the process.