Barona Creek pictures

[Eric Franzen]

Found these on a memory card and thought I might as well post them here. The pictures was shot during the first weekend of March, when I played Barona Creek.

Kind of hard to put words on how fun this course really is.
Wide and nicely ondulated fairways where a well placed drive often is rewarded with a sweet and long kick in the right direction. Bunkers and even more bunkers, of varying sizes and shapes, are always there to mess with your approach shots.

Anyway, on with the pictures.


The 7th


The 9th


The 11th



Ooops... wrong course.


The 16th

[A_Clay_Man]

Thanx for the Sunday morning chuckle. Priceless!

[Craig_Rokke]

Eric-
I was there for a 2nd time in Jan, and your pictures
reminded me of how much I enjoyed playing Barona.
Definitely one of my most enjoyable experiences on a golf course in the last couple years. (Wading through the
crowds in the Barona Casino is also an experience. I am not a gambler, but it's interesting/depressing observing the throngs
of fixed-incomes mechanically throwing down the slot arms
to the point of carpal tunnel onset.)

The Barona post leads me to a question: how much
of the way we evaluate a course is subconsciously derived
from it having natural vegetation, topography, views and features that contrast sharply with what we are used to?
In other words, does part of my  excitement of playing , say, a Barona or a Rustic get a boost from them both being so much different than the parkland or farm-based courses
of Southeast PA that I am so used to playing? Probably.

[Matt_Ward]

I plan on visiting Barona in mid-May -- it will be my third visit.

I understand that additional tees have been added to the course. Can someone who is familiar with these additions spell them out in greater detail.

Many thanks ...

[Pete Lavallee]

The only holes that haven't been lengthened are 1(no room with pond behind the black tee), 3, 9 (no room really unless they cut down some oak trees), 10, 11, and 16. The longest edditions are to 2 (50 yds), 8 (60 yds), 13 (70 yds). The rest of the additions range from 10 to 40 yds. The new length from the tips would be 7500. The course has not yet been rerated, to my knowledge.

[TEPaul]

I swear to God, if you gave me enough time I just know I could fit those bunker surrounds into a unified and completed jigsaw puzzle! Pretty cool though to see the pieces just laying on a big table like that.  

[ed_getka]

One of my favorite modern courses and site of the first King's Putter.
   Eric,
       What did you think of #12 and the last par 3 ?

[Tim Taylor]

Awesome course! Played 72 holes there over two gorgeous days last may.

In addition to the holes already mentioned, I really liked #3 - long par 3 with a nice slope short left of the green that can be used to bounce the ball to center or right hole locations.

I thought #13 was cool too- short par 4 cut into the side of the hill with a nice risk reward tee shot and a fast, sloping green.

When I played the course was wide, firm, and fast and a total blast to play.

TimT

[PThomas]

some of my west coast friends tell me I MUST get here and to Rustic someday...

[Matt Kardash]

i'm probably the only person here who actually finds those bunkers ugly looking

[plabatt]

OK, stuck here in a Michigan gravel pit; so where is Barona Creek west of the Sippi and whose the designer?

[Craig Van Egmond]

Barona Creek is outside San Diego and the architect is Todd Eckenrode.

[A_Clay_Man]

Matt, Aren't pretty bunkers oxymoronic?

[ed_getka]

There will be some who don't care for the look of the bunkering. However, the bunkering absolutely fits the scale of the land. Jeff Bradley has done some work at Barona at Todd E's behest I've read somewhere, so the "look" may have changed a tad. The bunkers originally had some sort of lining until the bunker edge grass matured, and I don't see those liners in the pix.
   Barona is easily one of the best courses of the modern era, although not without its shortcomings.

[Doug Wright]

Barona is easily one of the best courses of the modern era, although not without its shortcomings.

Ed,

What would the shortcomings be (I haven't played the course)?

Best,

[ed_getka]

I don't care for #12 at par 4 that doglegs right. There are bunkers down the right side and the hole plays up and over a ridge that is just high enough so you can't really see what is happening beyond. On the first play you would think that if you challenged the carry up over the bunkers right that you would be in a perfect position (risk/reward). However, you just end up in the rough, although the green is open to you from that angle. The problem with driving left off the tee is that from the fairway over there you are coming into the green so that it is shallow to you and it is exceedingly difficult to keep the ball on the green (at least for me, Mr. Lowspin ).
       The other hole is the last par 3 on the course (#15 or 16?). This hole is from an elevated tee, prevailing wind makes the hole play straight downwind, and the green is almost impossible to hold due to a lack of depth when playing to right side pin positions. You can't just bounce the ball on since the green is shaped like a boomerang and the inside of the curve is all bunkers right up to the green, also bunkering long. The green is set up with the boomerang shape like a reverse redan, so that left pins are accessible, but the right side is off the charts tough, unless you can aim at a 5 foot wide backstop that might keep your ball from going through.
   There are two par 5's on the course that taken individually are quite good, but feel like the same hole, with a creek seperating the fairway for your second shot where you need to decide to go for it down the right side, or put yourself in position on the left side. One hole does work itself uphill, and the other slightly down. The greens are different and both are interesting.
    The rest of the course is really good with #4 being one of my favorite holes there, along with a great short par 4 (#13?).
    I did a much more detailed analysis of my thoughts on this course when I was relatively new to this site. ?Jan. 2002
   Playing this course and then discussing it with Todd Eckenrode led directly to the first King's Putter.

[Todd_Eckenrode]

Great read, and hope we don't get a lawsuit from Mr. Trump.  Interesting thoughts from all.  The pics are from winter type play.  They don't overseed the bunker edges, which isn't my favorite "look".  To me, it's like taking a highlight pen around them, as they lose their ability to blend in with the contours around.  But I'm picky, I suppose.  

The changes we did in fall should be a lot of fun.  The new back tees certainly aren't for everyone, but there are a lot of low-handicap players that play there regularly, in addition to SDSU (including their tournament), and the upcoming Nationwide Tour Championship next year and 2010.  The distance these guys were hitting it when the course was firm and fast as intended was silly.  I saw too many 7, 8 and 9-irons into par-5's.  If it's playing as I intended it to play, 7500 yards plays like 7100 on a more traditionally soft playing surface.  In addition, we took "the angle" of most of the new tees a little more extreme, emphasizing the strategy of these tee shots.  New bunker work (Jeff Bradley and Chris Hunt) was largely to promote playability and aesthetics, starting in areas that were native grass predominately, but getting lots of traffic, thus slowing play and looking worn out.  Some of the new bunkers were for more strategic purposes, meant to break up the centerline,  or to emphasize natural rock features and draw the eye as such.

Would be curious to see how you like #12 now, Ed, with our tweaks and a few years of maturity.  I agree with your assessment of the approach to the green, and we intend to soften that a touch with revised turflines/approach area in the future.  It works generally, but if the greens are really firm, or if it's downwind more than a breath, it gets dicey.

I'll be out there this week and will take some current pic's.  If you're interested, and if anyone can aid me in posting these, I'd appreciate it.

Hope we get a good turnout on June 6 (Tuesday) after KP XXX(?)  Would love to meet those I don't know and see some familiar faces.  

[Pete Lavallee]

If you look closely at Eric's 1st, 2cnd, 4th and 5th photo's you can still see the bunker liner reinforcing the native walls of the bunkers.

Todd, it's been over 5 years now, are we any closer to the day they will be able to be removed?

[Todd_Eckenrode]

you're preaching to the choir.  i would imagine they'd have to come out before the nationwide next fall, so I think removal now, for that reason alone, so that the edges have time to mature.

[Matt Kardash]

Adam, i never said bunkers should be pretty, i'm just saying these look bad to me.

[Pete Lavallee]

Ed,

Regarding your comments on Barona: The short par 3 16th was very difficult to hold when the course was new. It's been 4 years since KPI and although the tribe stills keeps the greens very firm (ball marks just bruise the grass, no dirt pulled up) they are not as firm as they were in 2002. This is quite natural, as every new golf course's green soften up due to thatch eventually. Sam and I played there 2 weeks ago and from the gold tee (135 yards) he was able to hold the green, below the hole, to that middle right position. Yes, he did make the birdie putt. Originally it was borderline unfair, but not so now. Also there is no birthright to be able to fire at every pin on every green in the land; sometimes there might be a hole position that only affords a 2 putt par, how else are we to distinguish between the people who are smart enough to play away from the hole  .

I personally like the 12th, and the driving strategy it provides. You are correct in that the drive must be accurate to access the small section of landing area just over the right hand fairway bunker, this gives the golfer a chance to attack the pin. From the left half of the fairway the player needs to try to leave himself in an area where he can 2 putt; again no birthright to attack every flag on the golf course. With more room to the right every long player would bomb one down to the front of the green and be chipping for birdie; they have to earn it the way the hole is set up now. I would like to see some sort of warning system to alert golfers on the tee that it is safe to hit, since the LZ is complewtely blind from the tee.

Although both par 5's on the back use the creek to seperate the fairway into 2 distinct area's, they play very differently. They each go in different directions, one with, the other against the wind. The strategy on 13 is obvious: go right for a pin cut left and go left for the pin cut right. The 17th is not so clear cut and the golfer will need several plays before he can assess the merits of each strategy. Nothing wrong with having to play the course a dozen times before this stuff becomes clear; hey how else will we get you back down here  .

[ed_getka]

Todd,
   Great to see you hear. Would love to hear what projects you have in the works these days.

Pete,
   You just don't understand, IF I put a drive in play it IS my birthright to have a shot at the pin, because it hardly ever happens. Glad to hear #16 has softened up a bit, although I don't agree that one should have to "lay up"to access a pin position. Most of the stuff I was talking about are minor quibbles in the grand scheme of how good a course Barona Creek is. Assuming Barona isn't a 10 though, what keeps it from being one?