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Steve_Roths

  • Karma: +0/-0
Architect's Favorites
« on: May 08, 2006, 01:16:50 PM »
In the current issue of Cigar Afficiando five architects were asked to name their top 5.  The only rule was that they couldn't choose their own work.  As you can see below one tool included one that he did work on.  

Greg Norman

Royal Melbourne
Augusta
Old Course
Shinnecock
Harbour Town

Tom Fazio

Pine Valley
Waterville
Augusta
Pinehurst #2
Bel Air

Rees Jones

Pine Valley
Seminole
Old Course
NGLA
Maidstone

Tom Doak

Old Course
NGLA
Cyrstal Downs
Royal Melbourne
Sand Hills

Jack Nicklaus

Pebble Beach
St. Andrews
Augusta
Pinehurst #2
Carnoustie
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Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2006, 01:23:45 PM »
    That "tool" worked on three of the five he listed.
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Steve_Roths

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2006, 01:27:30 PM »
Crap, your right.  I was thinking Waterville because he did extensive work from what I hear.  But he did do Augusta and Pine Valley as well.  What a tool.
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Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2006, 01:35:07 PM »
   I didn't even know about Waterville.  But he's done lots of work at Bel Air.  So it's four out of five!  You could almost forgive PV and Augusta, as they'd be on many (if not most) lists.  But choosing Waterville and Bel Air is patent masturbation.
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2006, 01:39:18 PM »
The tool listed no course that's an original design of his, so I have no problem with his list.  Nicklaus designed the new 5th at Pebble and did work in the past at Augusta, so why no problem with him?

I was surprised that Muirfield wasn't on Nicklaus' list.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2006, 01:40:01 PM »
He was also the only one of the five who did not pick The Old Course at St. Andrews!
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Brent Hutto

Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2006, 01:44:35 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on May 08, 2006, 01:40:01 PM
He was also the only one of the five who did not pick The Old Course at St. Andrews!

Maybe he's angling for a job doing a makeover of TOC before the next Open there. He could do wonders at improving the visibility of the bunkering. I've heard that some of them you practically can't see at all from the tee!
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BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2006, 01:52:19 PM »
I can forgive him not picking TOC. Barely.

But to pick Waterville as his, apparently, favorite course in the UK....sheeesh. You gotta wonder.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2006, 01:53:55 PM »
Before we drop the subject, Mr. Fazio is also a steady client of Pinehurst Resort, even though he can't claim any input on #2.  So he put five clients on his list of five!

It amazes me that I'm one of the five guys they asked.
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2006, 01:57:05 PM »
Tom,

It amazes us they asked you too. Especially considering the rabble you hang out with on this site. :)
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike_Cirba

Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2006, 01:58:45 PM »
Jeez...every time I start to think that perhaps we're wrong about him, or perhaps overtly biased at his success, he springs something like this.

So, to utlize his own method of hyperbole and self-promotion, I'd say he's not a tool...he's a SuperTool.   ::) :P ;D
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 02:46:55 PM by Mike Cirba »
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2006, 01:58:57 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on May 08, 2006, 01:57:05 PM
Tom,

It amazes us they asked you too. Especially considering the rabble you hang out with on this site. :)


please Garland, show some respect...at least call me Mr. Rabble.... ;)
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Glenn Spencer

Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2006, 02:06:43 PM »
Coming from the other side, I am not so sure about this, I think I would have to give Jack some tool consideration for only picking places that he has won at TOC(2) and PB(2). I think that is equally as bad.
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Phil_the_Author

Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2006, 02:07:03 PM »
Greg... Harbor Town?

If you had beaten Fuzzy would the answer be different?

Give Jack a break on Pebble Beach because he has been saying as far back as the late 60's that Pebble was his favorite golf course in the world.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 02:08:26 PM by Philip Young »
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2006, 02:10:48 PM »
Glenn - considering PB and TOC two of one's five favorite courses makes one a tool?

Well then you'd have to call a LOT of people Mr. Hammer or Mr. Wrench.

Oh well.  If Jack based this on places he won at, he'd have a lot of work to make a top five.   ;)
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2006, 02:11:45 PM »
in Jack's defense, Glenn, he has frequently in the past stated how much he loves both courses..Pebble as being the place he'd play if he had only one round left

another "problem" for Jack is that he's won so much at so many different courses that it would be hard for him to pick 5 great ones without having at least 1 victory at one of them!

Riveria is one exception to the above, possible Medinah too
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2006, 02:50:27 PM »

Everyone looks a little biased - I wish they were allowed to pick from their own work.
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Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Glenn Spencer

Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2006, 03:01:53 PM »
Nicklaus-1959 North & South Amateur Champion- guess what course- he is every bit just as guilty as Fazio. He even seemed to know it halfway through the conversation. Carnoustie? I have never seen him say he liked that joint. I have heard countless times about Muirfield though. Has anyone ever played Carnoustie Village in Dublin?
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2006, 03:07:12 PM »
Cypress, Merion, Shinnecock, The National, Portrush. Jack didn't win anything of consequence at these places. I am not saying that he is a tool, but he certainly belongs in the same part of the shed that Fazio does, if you are going to rag on him. The reason Muirfield Village didn't make the list is probably because it was our first loss on American soil and Jack was the Captain. ;)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 03:08:36 PM by Glenn Spencer »
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2006, 03:17:09 PM »
Glenn - all of those are worthy Top 5 candidates for sure.

But can you really argue against any that Jack states?

Thus putting him in the same part of the shed ast Fazio is rather harsh, methinks.  Fazio blatantly broke the rules of the exercise, no?

TH
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2006, 03:32:48 PM »
Tom,

If you hated Jack Nicklaus like the man who stole your wife, you would rank him as the third best golfer of all time. So, obviously he is a great player, does this impact his position as being able to judge architecture? I am not saying anything about his architecture one way or the other, just that I think it is a little cozy that he would pick those courses. Fazio did break the rules it appears, I didn't read the first part, still Nicklaus is guilty of something here, even if I don't know what it is.
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2006, 03:34:39 PM »
Glenn - fair enough.

Call Fazio's a capital crime and Jack's a misdemeanor.

 ;D
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2006, 03:52:30 PM »
Jack's guilty of not going to play Sand Hills, thereby giving it no chance to make his list.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect's Favorites
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2006, 03:55:20 PM »
In fairness to Jack, he did not actually provide a list; said he's not into rankings. He started by saying that Pebble is the course he would pick for his last round of golf. I remember he mentioned Carnoustie's difficulty. Can't remember exactly why he nominated the other 3 though.
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"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter
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