[Bob_Huntley]

Someone listened. In spite of  43 days of rain out of the last 48 days of playing time, Pebble and Spyglass are in as good condition as  I have seen them in years. I shall try to find out, why?

Bob

[Evan_Green]

Bob - How much traffic have these courses gotten?  Could part of the reason they are in good shape because few people have played them for the last 2 months because they didnt want to pay $450/$300 to play in the rain?

[James Bennett]

Evan

I was there three weeks ago in threatening weather, and both courses looked full.  There were people hitting off after 3.00pm (the walk-ups) with everyone playing in 4's.  I concur with Bob's comments on presentation - I didn't play but walked all of pebble and about 6 holes of Spyglass.  The presentation of all aspects of the courses was outstanding.  I still don't like the fee to play, nor the time it takes to play but I give full praise to whoever is responsable for the quality of presentation at these courses.

The day I walked pebble I had played Cypress in the morning - the 2nd fairway at Cypress was a mixture of water and grass - it was that wet.  Cypress had been closed on the day before because of the rain, so Pebble passed a pretty tough test.  The creeks were flowing pretty fast through the courses. Greens at both courses were surprisingly firm, despite the rain.

James B

[Tim Leahy]

Someone listened. In spite of  43 days of rain out of the last 48 days of playing time, Pebble and Spyglass are in as good condition as  I have seen them in years. I shall try to find out, why?Bob

Check out the Duke's Card on the Del Monte golf course web site. $250 but get's you big discounts at Spyglass and Spanish Bay that pay for the card twice over and it's good for a foursome and is good for a whole year.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim - the Duke's card is a decent deal, but make sure and read all the small print.  There are pretty big limitations on the Spyglass and Spanish Bay play.  I've never bought one, primarily because of this and the fact I don't figure on getting to Old Del Monte all that much (which is the real worth of the card - great deals if one wants to play a lot of golf on Old Del Monte).

As for Spyglass and Pebble's improved drainage, I look forward to a further report from Mr. Huntley... such has never been the strength of either course, but particularly Spyglass has suffered over the years.  They did massive improvements in recent times though, and it seems to be paying off.

TH

[Tim Leahy]

Tim - the Duke's card is a decent deal, but make sure and read all the small print.  There are pretty big limitations on the Spyglass and Spanish Bay play.  I've never bought one, primarily because of this and the fact I don't figure on getting to Old Del Monte all that much (which is the real worth of the card - great deals if one wants to play a lot of golf on Old Del Monte).TH

I bought the Duke's card two different times and had no problem using the discount on Spyglass and Spanish bay on weekends or holidays. Initiallly you get four discount coupons that save you or your foursome of guests $100 each on Spyglass and $70 on Spanish Bay. Del Monte was just the bonus for me. I never had a problem with anyone in the pro shops at either course setting tee times or when it came time to pay. The last time I used it was the year before last so check out the web site for exact details, but if you want to save some money, buy it.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim:

All I meant is that there are definite restrictions on the tee-times you can get using the Duke's card, as you know.  You can only do tee-times 14 days in advance, while the rest of the world can do them far more in advance than that.  So your hope is for space available.  Sure it can work out - as it did for you - but that is a pretty big limitation in my book given the popularity of those courses and difficulty in getting tee-times for either.

The point is others have asked about it in here before (mainly visitors to our area), thinking they can just buy one and play Spyglass the next day and save money... as you know it MIGHT work that way, but probably not.  Both places remain very tough tee-times to get.  My caution remains to just keep this limitation in mind.

But we've discussed this before.  The issue remains getting a tee-time.  Of course one can also lie and defeat the system, but that remains up to one's personal ethics.  

TH

[Tim Leahy]

I can only vouch for my experiences and they always treated me like a member when I mentioned the Duke's card and I never had any problems getting a tee time or using it and I've advised friends to use it also with no problems.
But I'm sure you rich Silicon Valley guys don't mind paying full green fees, we poor state employees and farmers here in the Sacto Valley have to pinch our pennies when we get to the big resorts on the coast.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim:

Please.  This coming from the man shelling out $250 to then pay $175 and $125 to play some golf courses.... while I get pissed paying over $50 at Santa Teresa.

Seems to me we know who's the big spender and who's the penny pincher here.  

Anyway, I do think the restrictions are worth mentioning, most importantly for visitors.  

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

Bob, I know for a fact that Spy has been in great condition for awhile now. One major reason has to be the extensive drainage work, done over several years. also, The head pro there is a serious young man who has been given his goals, and means to acheive them. As for Pebble, It was my understanding that They use reclaimed water. I assume, This water is not the best quality and fails to give a rich green patina the way Mother Nature does.

   

[Tom Huckaby]

Adam - I was there in each of April 2005 and October 2005 and the drainage was improved from prior times, but still not great, that is not Bayonet-great... Bob seems to be saying that the drainage issues from before are now completely gone.  If so, that's fantastic... Could it be that it just takes a few years for such things to just come to full fruition?  Or is it more that they've just gotten things as good as they possibly can get given the soil, the forest, etc.?

TH

[Brent Hutto]

When Lou and I were at Spyglass this time last year they had the sixth hole closed and were laying that super-extensive small gauge drain line all up and down the fairway. They had the playable area very thoroughly trenched. If that system works as advertised, it should let you drain a rice paddy well enough to play golf in the rain. I don't know how many other holes they were planning on doing.

From passing observation, that sixth hole will play very differently if it's reasonably firm rather than being a bog.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I have been at the Lodge 3 times over this rainy period and the courses were pretty close to full. I am not saying some did not show or maybe it was 80 to 90% full, but both courses did appear to have a great deal of play given the weather and cost.

[A_Clay_Man]

Tom, Who knows what Bob saw and meant until he expounds?
I Suspect that even after just afew days of drying out, both courses, would illicit such a response. Especially if you hit it down the middle, the way Bob does.

[Tom Huckaby]

Adam:

You miss my point.

Bob says the courses are in fantastic shape now, which is incredible given the Noah's Ark type deluges we've had winter/early spring.  I am not doubting his assessment one bit.  What I am asking for is your take on WHY this might be so... especially in light of Brent's post...

It seems drainage work has continued for the last several years, up until this time last year.  I know when I was there last fall, no work was going on.  And at that time, I wouldn't have expounded on the great condition of the course - very much improved, yes, GREAT, no.

So the questions are:

given I totally accept that conditions must be great now if Bob says so, does drainage work like this take time to "settle" or somehow "cure"?  Why else would it be great now, not great last fall?  Again the assumption is no further work has been done... Or maybe more work was done over this past winter?

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

Huck, First off, there was no mention of great, just better. So, I don't see your point, and I cannot answer about the curing question.

Since we are learning how varied opinions on maintenance conditions can be, Bob will need to clarify his comments as to how great they really were, or as he states the best he's seen in awhile.

as good condition as  I have seen them in years

[Tom Huckaby]

Adam - Ok, if you say so.  Seems to me Bob sees this course all the time, certainly has seen the course way more frequently and recently than me, and if he says "as good condition as I have seen them in years" that to me equates to great.

But yes, he can clarify that.  I didn't think it necessary, but what the hell.

I just also figured you know a whole hell of a lot about these things, both the specific re Spyglass and the general re how drainage works.

But if you can't, or won't, help me out here, well then that's cool.

 

It would just be very helpful to me if you could accept my hypothetical and then speculate.

Hypo - Spyglass hugely improved but not great in November 2005; definitely great now.

Speculate:  why might that happen?  More work?  Curing/settling?  Of if none of that is possible, then yes it becomes a matter of perception.

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

Huck, It has been along time since I lived there, so I have no more to offer the subject than I originally posted. I suspect it is the quality of the rain water, versus, the reclaimed.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck, It has been along time since I lived there, so I have no more to offer the subject than I originally posted. I suspect it is the quality of the rain water, versus, the reclaimed.

Cool - that does help - I rather glossed over that.  SO... if it's rainwater draining through rather than effluent, that does make a difference.  They sure as hell have had no reason to actively water the course in the last few months!

 

[Scott Seward]

I played Spy last week and walked Pebble a few days before. Yes, they both are draining very well. Spy was only wet in a few places (walking from 7 green to 8 tee). I have heard that this might have to do with the course being sand-capped. Pebble's new super is outstanding so it is no surprise that the course is in great shape. The rain made for some great photo ops with the green of the course and storm clouds.

[Tom Huckaby]

Scott - muy interesante... so part of the work was that Spyglass was sand-capped?  Of course that would help mightily... But that is very interesting.

TH

[Eric Franzen]

Pebble's new super is outstanding so it is no surprise that the course is in great shape.

Good to hear. Last October I spent one morning walking Pebble at sunrise - basically all alone on the course.
I bumped into the superintendent, and his nice dog, out there. A great guy who was genuinely into discussing gca with a Swedish weirdo at 6:30 in the morning.

In general the course looked great compared to when I played it back in 2002. Four years later and I am still convinced that the 8th is one of the best par 4's that I will ever play.

[Bob_Huntley]

Adam,,

There has been no serious drainage engineering done in over a year. The Super at Spyglass sands the fairways five times a year and is obviously building up a stronger base. He does not aggressively mow in very wet conditions and in fact uses a plant retardent to restrain grass growth on the fairways.

The rain has been a plus, not for me, it is quite depressing.It has flushed out the salts that accumulate from the use of re-cycled water in the dry season.

Mr Yeo deserves plaudits for his work.

Bob

[Brent Hutto]

There has been no serious drainage engineering done in over a year.

So was the multiple drain line installation we saw just on the sixth hole or was it on other selected fairways?

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