I love Kiawah and Harbour Town; what do you think about the value?

[astavrides]

Ocean course is prettier, but HT MAY be better all around test of golf

Test of golf? Always a curious thought, sort of like 'shit values'.  Just how hard do we want to be beaten over the head?


I respectfully disagree as one must golf his ball at his very best at the Ocean Course otherwise you get your ass in a bag given back to you.

On another thought raised:
The condition of the Ocean Course is nearly always two orders of magnitude beter than Harbour Town which I usually find about a step above the local muni.

When was the last time you were at harbour town?  the condition was good feb '05 when i was there, and i think its improving all the time.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Jay -

I played HT on Monday after the Verizon, and that is the best time to play it in tournament condition.  Firm greens, good grass, etc.

Play the extra round at Chechessee.  Beg your way onto Long Cove.  Walk HT to see the course in person and take the group to dinner at 211 Park Place and order the Dbl. Pork Chops

[Jay Flemma]

Yean I was there wed and conditions were just fine.

Weird...I hit the ball straight there, but not at Kiawah.

Kiawah's more penal I think...at least I can punch out of the trees.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Best shot I hit in the Pro-am was from the straw.

did you like Chechessee?

JWK

[Jay Flemma]

Yes, I really liked Chechessee.  I wrote about it in a thread called Bulls Bay CC Charleston and Chechessee.  

I also have to say, I think Kiawah is the better value between the choice of Kiawah and Harbour Town, but its a close battle.  Neither really tips the needle in the value category - its no question they are a luxury item, yet both are very important golf courses.  Once again, Dye gives us two great strategic marvels...just completely different from one another.  I like the vertical and horizontal movement in the earth at Kiawah the most...and the wind.  Nevertheless, Harbour Town grew on me too...I actually hit my fairways there, so maybe thats why.  Kiawah I just really got slammed.  I notice Kiawah's prices are a little lower that HT's, yet the views and and hole designs are a little more advanced when evaluated as a whole.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Jay -

Glad that you enjoyed Chechessee.  HT from the fairways is much more enjoyable than punch and judy from the straw.

While I love The Verizon Heritage and the Sea Pines/Harbour Town experience, I don't understand why HTGL is always #1 rated in the state of SC by the publications.  Perhaps it is personal taste, but Kiawah Ocean and Long Cove are more demanding tests.  Perhaps it is the Fried Clams and Buds under Fraser Folly that seduces the raters.

For an interesting contrast, try the Colleton River 36 of Dye vs. Nicklaus.  Jack did consult on the design of HT, and it is interesting to see the evolution of their styles.

JWK

[Jay Flemma]

I thnk we'll have to get together at Richter one day soon too, eh?  I'll pass on the pork chops, but I hear the steaks are just fine;)

[Mike Hoak]

I played HT, Long Cove, Haig Point, and Kiawah Ocean on consecutive days back in 2004.  I enjoyed each course, but I have to say that my favorite was Harbour Town.  The conditions were impeccable, probably because I played on the final day the course was open to the public prior to the Heritage.  I found that I had to constantly think my way around the golf course.  Other than Pebble, I can not think of another high traffic public course with greens that small.

The Ocean was more aesthetically pleasing and, in my opinion, far more penal.  I loved my round at the Ocean course, but I found that it did not force me to think as hard as HT did.  I personally liked Long Cove better than the Ocean Course.    

[Jay Flemma]

Yeah MIke, I'm  glad to report I had no conditioning issues too, but then again, I played it the Wed. after the tournament.