Glenn Spencer;
We played Pipestone today. I must agree with you, especially about #2. I hit a perfect 3-wood right down the middle, came up over the hill, and found that balls in the fairway are funneled into the lake! The only place to hit it long is into the deep rough right. So lay up, eh? Well, if you do, then your second shot has the same fate! It will funnel from the fairway to the water. So you must lay up twice, then hit a long approach to this par-5. And the 1st time you play it there is no way to imagine it.
On the third my blind second went straight down the fairways again, only to run into a small grassy creek right, while the blind fairway narrows and turns slightly left.
I will never return to Pipestone.
But Glenn; I did not see your problem with #6 at Shaker Run, which I think is quite a good course. I hit it right over that small tree onto the green. We are talking #6 on the 'Lakeside' nine, right?
I think the claim that Art 'should have done better with that land' that I hear so often here is absurd, though. No way to prove 'you' would have done better. If THAT is your only complaint about a course, like Bay Harbor Quarry, I am not likely to buy it without a visit.
BTW, played Red Hawk in Michigan and it is excellent! No way to dissuade me on that one.
Doug
PS: Revived old topic that deserves reconsideration IMHO