Maxwell rolls...

[RJ_Daley]

With all the greens speed and contour discussion lately, I was wondering if there is a prototype "Maxwell roll"?  I'm hoping Tom Doak can speak up here, as I think he may be one person who knows the most on the subject, since Coore and Crenshaw don't write here.

I am thinking about # 6 at Crystal Downs as possibly being the ideal.  There, the two rolls are at about a 45* angle to the approach and near the center of the green complex, as I remember.

The other great example of this sort of double roll is #8 at Wild Horse.  Sand Hills has a few more pronounced rolls, like #2, 6, and more subtle on 14-15.  

Do good Maxwell rolls require a double elongated roll of mounds, center of green, and how long, high, and how oriented?  Do they tie into the edges, or exist on their own internally situated merits?  Should they have cupability within or near them, or be a factor that influences putts to hole locations that must transverse them?

[RJ_Daley]

PS:  I did not see the new post by Ran about Chris Clouser's interview, before asking these questions.  Thus, I am moving on to read Chris's interview now.  I'll certainly look into his book.

[Chris_Clouser]

From what I could find I don't know that there is a prototype Maxwell Roll.  He used various types of contouring that I believe over the years have been lumped into this "Roll" category.  These would include swales, spines and mounds in the putting surface.  But to use the example you have given of the 6th at Crystal, there are several instances of a similar design.   But there are several of the other variations that you mention in the last part of your post as well.

 

[redanman]

As I get it, Perry Maxwell and his son J Press to a lesser extent were famous for pronounced contours that over time took on the moniker of "Maxwell's Rolls"  which often are rolling rather than shelving as evolved in the modern style.  There were also "poofs" as TEP Cooreshaw describes as Maxwellian, but I truly think CBM and crew did them first.  GEorge Bahto told me how they did it.  Along those same lines to a greater extent, Tillinghast built bigger ones at SHCC on the 8th green and called them Dolomites.

J Press built a few very wild greens in Colorado I can tell you.  They were and are loads of fun to play.  We had them on our home course and hopefully they haven't taken out too many.

[ed_getka]

It would be cool to know how Maxwell did those rolls/undulations. The nearest thing I can think of to emulate some of the greens I've seen would be to have a bedsheet you were shaking out in a mild breeze and be able to instantly freeze it in place. I just can't think of another way to get all those "rolls" to flow so beautifully.

[TEPaul]

Now fellas, particularly RJ, if you are going to speak of Maxwell Rolls reverently---matter of fact if you are going to speak of them at all you must get the spelling correct.

It is Maxwell Rolls, not Maxwell rolls. The reason for that is his Rolls are green contours for sure, perhaps the best ever created on golf putting greens and because they were considered so special when he did them, their double entendre is a combination of the names of the two finest automobiles of Perry's day---eg the Maxwell and the Rolls Royce.

Because of the significance of the Rolls Royce noone would ever think to spell it rolls royce and when referring to those special details that make up the gorgeous Rolls Royce automobile, there is no such lowest common denominator of  that car that is called a "Roll".

As for how Perry Maxwell and crew did them I'm with Jim Urbina's thought on them when he was standing on the fascinating 9th left green at PVGC that Perry and the crew must have just free floated those greens by eye. Not to mention that the "Forgotten Man"---Maxwell's famous Wood Bros must have been ultra talented that way.

Unless Chris Clouser has some Maxwell green drawings that are so detailed in numerical dimension I would have to think Jim Urbina is correct.

By the way, on the 10th green of Ross's Charles River G.C. there are two lowish rolling mounds in the middle of that green which are about as typical of Maxwell Rolls as any Maxwell Rolls anywhere else are. Ross built that course in 1921 and Maxwell may've still be on his grand tour studying architecture at that point. Maxwell certainly toured the East. Did those contours on the 10th of Charles River G.C. inspire him to do what became famous as Maxwell Rolls?

[redanman]

To answer Ed's question, what Georgie told me as we went around the Knoll (The course that we must thank for energizing Georgie to become "The Source" as to M-B-R and their courses)  was that the team for Raynor et.al. went around the green and dropped largish spadefulls of earth and then let the rain or watering shape the lumps into little natural undulations.  Maxwell having built push-up style greens likely used a similar technique, whereas Tillie at SHCC lukely used a small wheelbarrow (as a walker, no doubt to steady himself from the effects of ethanol) to make those dolomites on #8!    hicccup!  

[RJ_Daley]

TEP, you are my role model, and the ideal of American yout.  At what point does a poof become a full fledged Maxwellian Roll?