Golfweek reports new Masters ball may be on the horizon

[Jim Nugent]

It's bit early to jump to any conclusions, but I just saw this in Golfweek:

"A winning score south of double digits and an eclectic leaderboard may keep Hootie and the bulldozers at bay for at least a year or two. But it seems Augusta National officials remain interested in the idea of a "Masters" golf ball to combat the distance gains of modern orbs.

"What are they going to call it?" asked Nick Price at the Players Championship. "The dogwood ball? What do you do, turn around and tell the manufacturers we're going to play the dogwood ball this week."

The green jackets may be closer to creating a "dogwood" ball than some would think. Sources said last week officials were measuring not only the length of players' drivers, but which particular brand and model of ball went where."

http://www.golfweek.com/ourtake/285863969122402.php

If Augusta does roll back the ball -- and it works -- the idea could easily spread to some other tournaments as well.  

[Tom_Doak]

I just cannot imagine that Augusta is going to make such a move unilaterally.

Ask any player about Augusta National and they will tell you what a fine line there is between a great shot and a mediocre one ... on several holes they have to land the ball within a yard of the perfect distance if they have any hope of a makeable birdie putt.

So how in the world would they adjust if they arrive on Monday and are given a new ball which doesn't fly the same distance as the one they play every other week?

They may be the leaders in working toward a more sensible golf ball for the Tour pros, but unless they can convince the Tour or the USGA to make the change with them, I cannot see them making the switch.

[TEPaul]

I also doubt ANGC would ever do anything like that. This issue was floated by ANGC about five years ago, ANGC gave the story to SI and then killed the whole thing at the last moment. Why was that?

If a reduced distance ball happens at the Masters it will probably happen in conjunction with this new initiative that is just beginning right now between the USGA and the manufacturers.

You're all aware, aren't you, that the USGA has asked all the manufacturers to submit samples of balls that go 25 and 15 yard less far (I think it is) aren't you? Why do you suppose they are doing that?

The interesting thing is the USGA has probably not laid down any specs or new rules and regs for new specs. They've simply asked all the manufacturers to give them samples of golf balls that go 25 and 15 yards less far so they can be tested by the USGA.

Maybe it's just in the spirit of free enterprise that they told them---you guys figure out how each of you want to do it but however you do it they'll need to go 25 and 15 yards less far.  

Interesting!

[paul cowley]

....alright, I give up on the distance thing ....just let it go...we will adapt or perish.
Hell, even #1 at TOC was once two stout smacks of a feather ball before paying your third over the burn....talk about a future mean par three...whoa.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Make em play balata!  That would make some serious adjustments necessary!  

Although the tournament was good this year it still lacked the compelling shot.  The time in the tournament when a plyer stands over a shot on the back side when you know if he makes it-he is still in it-and if he misses-he's done.  

I think the length has taken those moments away.

What does it take to bring those instances back to the Masters?

[rgkeller]

So how in the world would they adjust if they arrive on Monday and are given a new ball which doesn't fly the same distance as the one they play every other week?

Give them the ball a month before the tournament.

[Bill_McBride]

You would think the changes over the past few years would accommodate any future increases in ball distance, but apparently the ball guys are talking 15 more yards!  Where will it end?  How much farther back can the tees be moved?

[paul cowley]

OK....if they do move to a ball that gets less distance, do they also go with one that curves more as well....or is it less distance while still keeping the current straight ball that has made all the tree planting at least a little strategic.

Staying in the chute on #18 would be a real thrill with the curvy short ball

[Steve Lang]

 

Wouldn't ya love to have an asterisk by your name?

*Dogwood Ball 2007 Champion Golfer

**Rosewood Ball 2008 Champion Golfer

Then everyone would really have fun "what-if" ing... champions of different eras

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

I just cannot imagine that Augusta is going to make such a move unilaterally.

Ask any player about Augusta National and they will tell you what a fine line there is between a great shot and a mediocre one ... on several holes they have to land the ball within a yard of the perfect distance if they have any hope of a makeable birdie putt.

Tom Doak,

PGA Tour pros were able to do that in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's.

They'd adapt quickly and figure out just how far the ball goes with each of their clubs.

One can't limit their thoughts to reasons why it might not work.  Think in terms of reasons why it would work.[/color]

So how in the world would they adjust if they arrive on Monday and are given a new ball which doesn't fly the same distance as the one they play every other week?

I don't think the first time they'd find out about it was when they drove through the gates immediately prior to the tournament.[/color]

They may be the leaders in working toward a more sensible golf ball for the Tour pros, but unless they can convince the Tour or the USGA to make the change with them, I cannot see them making the switch.

While the R & D might be underway, I would imagine the information would be shared with other interested parties on a "needs to know" basis.[/color]

[Jim Nugent]

As with many other ideas in golf, this one could be tested pretty easily.  Let the pro's play ANGC with the proposed ball, not in the next tournament but over a series of practice rounds.  This would give them a chance to get used to the ball, and let Hootie and gang see how things go.

They would probably want to move some tees back up for the test period.  Could they take down some trees as well?  Seems like it, since they apparently can put them back up at will.

If things work as many here expect, the mischief done by RTJ, Fazio and others could be undone, Augusta could go back in time, and be returned to more of the course it was designed as.  

Tom Doak to the rescue?

 

[Joel_Stewart]

It would seem more appropriate for the R&A to take the lead on a competition ball for the Open than ANGC at this point.  Augusta's current length is far more than St.Andrews as an example.

[A_Clay_Man]

It's becoming apparent that whatever decisions these guys make, will in all likelyhood, be the wrong one.

And for the record: Archived or not, the Masters T-ball idea, was all mine. I offered it up to Hottie as free advice 6 years ago. So you should all know how much that's worth.

[A.G._Crockett]

One minor problem being, of course, that such a ball doesn't  currently exist...

[ForkaB]

One minor problem being, of course, that such a ball doesn't not currently exist...

AG

Such balls do in fact exist.  As a matter of fact, I have a Maxfli HT-100 balata sitting in my bag, ready to launch off the first tee of Hoylake in the Buda Cup 2006.   Before Adam C was born, people on this site were arguing intelligently about the need for a competition ball, and how Hootie and his Blowfish (err... Committee) would be the ideal medium for inroducing such.

It will happen.  Trust me.

RF

[A.G._Crockett]

Rich,
I have a Dell computer box in my garage full of old golf balls, and 3 or 4 sleeves of various balatas and Professionals as well.  That's not the same, of course, as those balls still being in production, which they are not.

It would be cool, though, for you and I to become the exclusive suppliers of golf balls for the Masters!  I'd have to tighten security in my garage dramatically.

[TEPaul]

"Hell, even #1 at TOC was once two stout smacks of a feather ball before paying your third over the burn....talk about a future mean par three...whoa.  

Paulie:

Sometimes you scare me. You just may be the king of the future super mean long par three!!  

When you begin to say something like; "Who said GIR should apply to a long par 3?", then I will know you are there.  

Do you think the old GB architects and even the great early American ones were concerned with GIR---or for that matter were even aware of the concept? No way JOSE!!

GIR is the product of the number crunching, data-loving, "standardization" mentality of these new whiz kids of the modern computer age.

[ChasLawler]

So how in the world would they adjust if they arrive on Monday and are given a new ball which doesn't fly the same distance as the one they play every other week?

just to play Devil's advocate...don't the balls fly a different distance every time the pros tee it up at Castle Pines?

[PThomas]

It will happen.  Trust me.

RF

I hope your right Rich, but I fear you are not

[redanman]

The biggest obstacle to geting a complete redesignation of ball criteria for legality is agreement of the ball manufacturers on those criteria.  It is probably developments now being tested for the next "generation of balls" that is the obstacle.  All that R&D money already spent. Surely Calloway, Bridgestone and of course Titleist has such development underway.  How far in advance are the companies already planning?  One, two, three seasons?

Given that they will all have to produce new balls to meet these new, currently unstated criteria, I do not understand the reluctance on their parts other than this R&D money already spent to get on board.  The differences will remain, they will just be a proportional one.

New balls for absolutely everyone!  All golfers.  What an opportunity for sales.  THE american dream, a whole new market (the same old one - they just must have the new product.  If the new balls are required for handicap purposes, its done.

It is rather more likely that determining these new ball criteria is the obstacle.


Very over-simplified:
Lets say arbitrarily that you keep the same ball size and weight. (A good idea)
Use a standard club, face orientation, clubhead speed and angle of attack for testing, or use the same bench criteria with new standards.  Voila!

Using a 120 mph speed (chs) or 100 mph chs is probably irrelevant or at least negligable.

Initial velocity (iv)  of 180 with 120 chs reduced by 20% from (again just #'s) is 144, with 150 iv from 100 chs  is 120

Side spin reduced a 20-30% figure, using same club percentages are the same

Back spin (There is no such thing as top spin, it is just a lower or absent back spin.) again reduce by a determined percentage.

... and a few other technical matters

THAT's all that needs agreement.  


If ANGC decides to do it first and goes with a single manufacturer, who loses?  All the other manufacturers.

Question is:

Should that happen who will fall in line and how quickly? (That's two questions.)

 

[ChasLawler]

The biggest obstacle to geting a complete redesignation of ball criteria for legality is agreement of the ball manufacturers on those criteria.  It is probably developments now being tested for the next "generation of balls" that is the obstacle.  All that R&D money already spent. Surely Calloway, Bridgestone and of course Titleist has such development underway.  How far in advance are the companies already planning?  One, two, three seasons?

Given that they will all have to produce new balls to meet these new, currently unstated criteria, I do not understand the reluctance on their parts other than this R&D money already spent to get on board.  The differences will remain, they will just be a proportional one.

New balls for absolutely everyone!  All golfers.  What an opportunity for sales.  THE american dream, a whole new market (the same old one - they just must have the new product.  If the new balls are required for handicap purposes, its done.

Titleist is the only company that stands to lose anything as a result of a roll-back on the ball. For everyone else, it's a fresh chance to get some more market share.

[redanman]

Titleist has so many ______ ______ golf shop professionals on their staff hawking their wares, public, CC-FAD and private that that is very unlikely to happen, IMObservation.  Titleist is just fine and always be.  Wally and the boys are plenty safe.

Most golfers are very brand loyal, that's why Titleist is on top.  They made the best balls back in the 1930's, 1940, 1950's, 1960's and 1970' and 80's, too - while every one else's wound balls were not as good, liquid, solid or steel core, no matter, Titleist's windings and balata were better.  Only in the 1990's did the balls all come together quality wise with teh advent of solid balls.  Pure plastic is pure plastic, all you need is a good chemist, change the polymer of your competitor jsut a little and voila! your own patent protected formula.

That's the unspoken flattner in the ball world.  Titleist remains on top because of brand loyalty, not quality.

What ball did YOUR father play?

[Scott Cannon]

Titleist has so many ______ ______ golf shop professionals on their staff hawking their wares

Easy with your _______ _______ slurs about golf pros please.

[ChasLawler]

Bill – I agree with you, but I suppose my point is that Titleist is the only company that really runs the risk of losing something as a result of a rollback. We can debate the level of that risk all we want, but there’s no question they have a comfortable share of the market right now. Changing the specs on the ball could affect that.

So what’s holding the USGA up?

[Anthony Butler]

One minor problem being, of course, that such a ball doesn't not currently exist...

Such balls do in fact exist... Before Adam C was born, people on this site were arguing intelligently about the need for a competition ball, and how Hootie and his Blowfish (err... Committee) would be the ideal medium for inroducing such.

It will happen.  Trust me.

RF

Not going to happen without the blessing of the USGA... you don't think Hootie talks with Fred Ridley about this kind of thing?

Augusta might be a 'special' event, but if they institute a competition ball before any moves by the USGA in agreement with the manufacturers to do the same, it is no longer a special GOLF event. In fact, every player signed to play titleist, nike, callaway etc... would be in breech of their contract–unless, of course, the Masters was NO LONGER considered to be a golf tournament.

[Tags:]

Tags: