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Jordan Wall

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2006, 10:49:48 AM »
A course near my house has OB in play on 15 holes....at least, with hazards on the other 3!!!!

There have got to be better ways of defending par.....

John Kavanaugh

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2006, 10:51:20 AM »
Jordan,

OB does not defend par...it defends the property rights of people who live next to the course.

JohnV

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2006, 10:57:23 AM »
I was once a member of a course that OB on the left of 17 holes.  The right side only had OB on 2 holes (short of hitting it across another fairway.)  I never had a hook until I got there, I quickly developed one and then spent 10 years trying to block it to keep the ball in bounds.  

It wasn't great and at times it wasn't fun, but it was cheap.

Jordan Wall

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2006, 11:00:04 AM »
Jordan,

OB does not defend par...it defends the property rights of people who live next to the course.

There is OB that runs through the holes smack in the middle of the course...

Its really weird.

There are.....5 holes that have the OB through the middle of the course.

It is short, so I am assuming it defends par ???

Kyle Harris

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2006, 11:05:27 AM »
Jordan,

OB does not defend par...it defends the property rights of people who live next to the course.

There is OB that runs through the holes smack in the middle of the course...

Its really weird.

There are.....5 holes that have the OB through the middle of the course.

It is short, so I am assuming it defends par ???

Typically when the OB is inside the course boundary, it exists to defend birdie, not par.  ;)

JohnV

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2006, 11:24:02 AM »

Typically when the OB is inside the course boundary, it exists to defend birdie, not par.  ;)

Or to defend the people playing the other hole.

Kyle Harris

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2006, 11:31:20 AM »

Typically when the OB is inside the course boundary, it exists to defend birdie, not par.  ;)

Or to defend the people playing the other hole.

Our local muni, the venerable Five Ponds, just gives you hardhat.

Mike_Sweeney

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2006, 07:13:21 PM »
as a person who has been around the course over 1000 times as a caddy and player you begin to understand just how much OB is an integral part of the design.

Dan,

Are you related to Matt Ward?

I had dinner on Friday night with my oldest friend and his Dad after a golf outing at The Shore. In two years "Mr Fitz" will celebrate 50 years of membership at Merion Golf Club, and I am not sure if even he would make that statement!

D_Malley

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2006, 09:22:12 PM »
mike
not sure what you mean by that, but it is definitely possible that i have been around the golf course more than a member of 50 years.

Mike_Sweeney

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2006, 05:47:32 AM »
mike

one thing you said that counters the gca rule of thumb that struck me as interesting was "walks between holes cross other holes"

i believe that this feature is one that indicates a very good architext that is very creative and uses the property to full advantage.  I also believe that the fact that we do not see this as much today proves how un-creative many of todays course designers are. This shows us why they need 250 acres to build a course now.

Dan,

With the price of land these days, I believe that the need for acreage at golf courses is not driven by a lack of creativity but rather by environmental restrictions, permitting and legal issues. Clearly developers would prefer to pay for less land and if you gave an architect the land at Merion today, he would have to build a 9 hole course.

In reference to your comment about seeing Merion 1000 times, that is probably similar to the number of times that my Postman saw my house before we did a renovation project. However that did not qualify him for bidding on the reconstruction. If you look in the archives of this Discussion Group, there are literally hundreds of theads with thousands of post referencing Merion Golf Club.

Most are by gentleman that have probably played Merion far less than I have, but most have greater knowledge than myself. I am guessing that most here would be more interested in the impressions of Tom Doak than you or I in reference to OB at Merion and dumb Old Tom isn't even creative enough to get 18 holes in there at Ardmore Avenue.  ;)

« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 05:58:37 AM by Mike Sweeney »

mike_malone

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2006, 08:41:06 AM »
 Mike Sweeney,

   I think D Malley was citing Merion as  a great exception to a simple rule that OB should be limited on great courses. I think he probably loves the course.

   I had my greatest criticism of Merion AFTER my best round there. I was hard pressed to call it one of the best in America after a 12 hdcp (me) hit ten wedges to the green in regulation from the member tees.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 08:48:25 AM by mayday_malone »
AKA Mayday

D_Malley

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2006, 01:42:02 PM »
mayday, your statement is correct. i do love the golf course, and i think if you read the thread you do not see me say anything negative about merion.  My point was that if an architext were to use that much OB today he would be blasted.  The more you play it the better it gets, and the more you play you realize how much OB is incorporated into the design.  It always seems like the best place to be on any given hole is always closer to the danger, and in alot of cases that may be out of bounds.  so if you really only see that threat on hole #2, you simply have not played the course enough. i could site numerous other shots were OB is a huge factor (for one - 2nd shot on 11th).  

In regards to the other issue about criss crossing hole routing, i do belive that this is something used be very good classic era architexts.  The lack of it's use today is just one of many factors contributing to the need for large amouts of acerage on new sites.  As Mr. sweeney states enviormental issues also are a large factor.  But to say that this feature is against the "GCA rule of thumb" is very interesting, and i would like to hear other peoples comments.  

This probably deserves a whole new thread for people to comment on.


Jason Topp

Re:OB 13 of 18 holes
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2006, 03:38:01 PM »
I've always been fascinated by this story.  The course was undoubtably hideous and probably had ob on every hole, but I would have loved to have been there.

http://www.golfdigest.com/newsandtour/index.ssf?/newsandtour/gw20010803blancas.html

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