Feature Interview with Stanley Thompson is posted

[Ran Morrissett]

A few years back in September, George Thomas hooked up with Geoff Shackelford to have a chat about how his courses had been treated and the general state of architecture. A general feedback from that Feature Interview caught both Geoff and me by surprise - "'The way you tout their work, about time a Feature Interview was posted with a Golden Age architect!"    

The power of the internet and the power of GolfClubAtlas.com indeed!

In the same vein, Stanley Thompson recently contacted architects Jeff Mingay and Ian Andrew to rant about the general mediocre quality of design work in Canada that has followed his 'retirement'.  Indeed, he bemoans the fact that since he stopped working in 1952 (I mean really stopped working!) , the most fun course built in Canada to play (Devil's Paintbrush) was done by an American firm. His use of expletives became particularly strong - and frequent -  when asked to comment on SCOREGolf's national rankings!

However, much to Jeff's and Ian's credit, they switched gears with the Toronto Terror and got him to focus on the particulars of his own projects. Part II of their Feature Interview regarding Stan's comments on the state of modern architecture in Canada will be posted later this fall.

Part I though is chock full of interesting tidbits that I've never seen detailed anywhere before. For instance, Thompson was the driving force behind the Cape Breton project. In addition, to insure as many jobs were created as possible, he assured the federal government that bulldozers and steam shovels would be used only where absolutely necessary. It is entirely accurate to say that Thompson's Cape Breton was largely done by hand.

Jeff's and Ian's insight into Thompson's larger than life personality and into some of the details behind the best work that Canada has ever seen makes this Feature Interview a great addition to the site.

Cheers,

[Chris Parker]

Oooh, I've been waiting to read this since Ian told me about it last month!

[Jeff_Mingay]

Poor ol' Stan Thompson seems to have been lost amongst all the chat about Augusta National (etc.) this week! So, I thought I'd hike this thread back up to page 1!

Ian and I had fun putting this interview together. In fact, it was Ian's smart idea to concentrate on "Stan the Man" rather than strictly architecture-related stuff. As Ran points out above, I think Thompson's unique personality comes across well in this (fictional) interview.  

Enjoy!

Cheers,

[Dave Bourgeois]

Great stuff guys!

[Jason Topp]

Well done!  Some of the responses make me think of Fazio (unlimited budget and I exceeded it) or was it Dye? or was it Trump?

I purchased a round at North Oaks in the Twin Cities at a charity auction that I have not yet used.  Does anyone know if there is much of Thompson's work left at the course?  Are there any characteristic features I should look for?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Jason,

I've always wondered about North Oaks myself. I've not been there (yet). It's one of Thompson's later works (1949-51). He died January 4, 1953.

Apparently, Thompson's brother Matt supervised the construction at North Oaks, which is interesting.

Here's an interesting quote from the St. Paul Sunday Pioneer Press newspaper, August 1950:

"Manicured to the whims and inspirations of a fabulous little gentleman with a red face and spike-pointed cane seat, the picturesque meadows of the Hill family estate, north of St. Paul, are being transferred into a living challenge for golfers... Thompson, the 57-year old wizard from Canada who believes that speed is as much an instrumental part of golf course design as the site itself, has an entourage of 20 workmen, six caterpillars, five farm tractors and other assorted mountainous machines moving at a 16-hour clip from dawn to sunset... Thompson shows a particular camaraderie towards number 11. This attractive par three, 195 yards fairway, is bordered closely on the left by two water holes. A creek winds menacingly along the right to engage the slicer."

An interesting tidbit, too... according to Jim Barclay's biography on Thompson, North Oaks was laid out with the spectator in mind, in hope the course would attract significant tournaments. Apparently, there are certain areas on the course where as many as 5 or 6 greens and several more tees can be viewed.

More from the Pioneer Press:

"In one particular 'gallery space', a throng of more than 2,000 can see progress on the 12th, 13th, and 17th greens without more exertion than a movement of the head. And with strategic grading, no fan will have to strain to look over the head of another."

Stanley Thompson: the father of stadium golf?!

The Pioneer Press reporter asked Thompson when he would play North Oaks. He said: "In about three years... after all the cuss words are out of their system."

[Bill_McBride]

This interviewing of long-deceased architects is a fascinating process - and rewarding too when so well done.  Is it possible Ran and say Martin Bonnar could interview Old Tom Morris?  Or Ran and Mark Rowlinson interview Alister MacKenzie?  What tales those guys could tell!

[Ian Andrew]

Jeff,

That was a great quote we missed. Another favourite line was the one about "...but every once in a while I like to fool the boys a little" I think it's on the back of the North Oaks card.


There are even more funny stories that are not in there.

Part II is a whole other question. I'm not as keen about putting words in Stanley's mouth, because we would likely have to.

Everything in the ifeature is from newspapers and articles - Jeff and I didn't make up anything - although most of it is legend (from Thompson's own mouth - he loved a good tale).

[Yancey_Beamer]

Great interview!!!!
Paradise is playing Thompson courses during the summer.
I've made the tour twice.
Just great!
Yancey

[BCrosby]

Would it be possible to ring Thompson up again and ask more about his relationship with RTJ?

The architect that set the tone for the Dark Ages, who dominated gca longer than anyone ever had, who built or rebuilt more courses than anyone (except maybe Ross), got his start with Thompson and was in partneship with him for about 10 years. RTJ wrote a number of articles in the '30's claiming partial credit (along with his partner ST) for Banff.

I would love to hear what ST thought about RTJ.

Bob

[Jeff_Mingay]

Bob,

I'm not sure Thompson talked much about his relationship with Jones? I haven't seen many quotes, anyway.

Reporrtedly, they originally got together about 1930, when Midvale G.C. in Rochester, NY insisted Thompson supervise Jones' work there. (Midvale was Trent's first original design, from scratch). Two years later, a partnership began between Thompson, Jones, and Stanley's brother Bill, who died in 1935. That's when Thompson-Jones & Co. was officially formed.  

According to Barclay's Thompson biography, they agreed to split fees 50/50 in the USA. But Jones received a lesser split on fees for Canadian work (consistent with Thompson's personality!). Barclay also says that Jones did the routing for Capilano. (My gut tells me otherwise.) Thompson also had a number of jobs in South America that Trent was apparently working on at that time, based in a NYC office.

A few years ago, Geoff Cornish told me that Thompson and Jones were both very strong personalities, so they argued often.

I get the impression the Thompson-Jones partnership was one more of convenience than actual collaboration, particularly as the years went on; perhaps a bit like Colt, Alison and MacKenzie. In other words, the partnerships attracted work but the partners never truly collaborated.

Funny though, Thompson was still using Thompson-Jones & Co. letterhead during the late 1940s.

And, I have Thompson's original routing plan for Green Gables GC on Prince Edward Island in front of me, here. The plan is from about 1939, and it's labelled "Thompson, Jones & Co.". I'm certain though that Jones had nothing to do with Green Gables; or Highlands Links, which was constructed at the same time.

I wonder what Rees and RTJII know about their father's relationship with Thompson? I should probably ask them... for the sake of history.

[BCrosby]

Jeff -

Thanks. Interesting.

Was RTJ operating under the Thompson-Jones & Co. name at the time he got the Peachtree and ANGC jobs in 1947-48?

Those jobs put RTJ on the map. I have wondered if RTJ's qualifications for the jobs was based on his partnership with ST, who had a much bigger name at the time.

Bob

[Jeff_Mingay]

Bob,

I'm 99.9% sure Thompson and Jones were officially split by the early 1940s. And, again, they were working independently of each other prior to that.

I'm thinking Thompson simply didn't want that "Thompson-Jones & Co." letterhead to go to waste! So he continued to use it until the supply ran out!

Thompson definitely had nothing to do with Peachtree or the RTJ renovations at Augusta. Trent was very good at networking, and selling himself. Somehow he became acquainted with Bobby Jones, with no help from Thompson.

[Ian Andrew]

When they figured out that there was government money available for golf, they split the work beteen Canadian and American jobs. At that point you can pretty much argue they began to work on their own. I thought I understood Thompson and Jones to be more of a convienient partnership than collaborating partners.

Trent has claimed routing Jasper too, we know that is not the case. Stanley gave very little lattitude to anyone who worked for him, I would bet Trent didn't route any of those projects. There are also a series of letters from Capilano to Thompson regarding the project that make it clear that it was Stanley's job.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Trent claimed to route Jasper! That's funny, Ian.

If I'm not mistaken, when they met in 1930, Jones was 24-years old. The routing for Jasper was completed about 1924. So Trent would have been 18 when he routed that course!

As I've already mentioned above, I think it's highly doubtful Trent routed Capilano in his NYC office. Highly doubtful.

[Ian Andrew]

All the correspondance from Stanley Thompson is in the book "Hathstauwk" , The Story of Capilano G &CC. There is a picture of him on site and lots of references to the work going on

[Sean Leary]

bump for Cary.

[Stanley Thompson]

Trent, the biggest liar I have ever known. He constantly claimed to have done half the projects I ever did and yet he did none of them.

He worked under me until the work ran dry after the depression. We split operations between the US and Canada and tried to survive on government grants for make work projects. We stuck to our own countries and eventually parted ways when it got hard to find work. I had to let most of my construction men go at that point. I certainly didn’t miss Trent.