Harbour Town

[Alex_Wyatt]

Even though Nicklaus may have influenced it, its pretty good anyway, right? How about Furyk's card today 8 3s, 10 4s.   Pretty economical.

Is this course more in the vein of the trend we like or the trend we don't? Low profile we like.  Tight we don't. Any thoughts?

[Matt MacIver]

"Trend" is a interesting choice, since the course is like 30 years old.  Here's what I think:

- oak trees.  Love the oak trees that guard one side or the other of numerous fairways.  My friends call it target golf, I call it strategic.  

- small, slow greens.  Better be a good chipper.  I frankly think the green surrounds could be a little more interesting (read: difficult).  

- eye candy?  That's a trend today, right?  Not here, lots of ugly 1970 style houses encroaching the tight-ish fairways.  Only the last two holes have the spectacular marsh views, and associated wind.  

So it's a relatively tight course with only one real line of play; aim your tee shot well and you can see the green.  Errant tee balls require punch shots or other difficult recoveries to small, protected greens -- I hit a ton of them (punches and recovery shots I mean, not greens).  

I loved the course and would play it again -- but probably not for full price on MY dime.  But the variety of shots I had to play when I was in trouble were a lot of fun.  

[redanman]

It is generally an outlier to the approved taste of golfclubatlas.com elite, yet garners much love from same.

It is narrow, has few options especially around the greens and most importantly it need ragged bunker edges to be acceptable for "the look".  For me it is usually covered with a bit too much debris for my tastes from all the foilage which to mee is long overdue for a haircut and a shave.

That said, Dye is a favorite architect of mine (and the Mrs., for that matter).  I probably like the first nine of Ogeechee at Ford Plantation as my favorite Dye "Low Country" style golf course.  The second nine is faux-Irish dunes on an old rice paddy, so that's why I specify "first nine".  Therefore that includes two at HT, two at Long Cove that I might pick it over.  It is a little wider, a little less wedged in, the housing and foilage impact less so it is closer to my "Dye low-country ideal" for what little that is worth.




WATCH THIS SPACE
I predict Love III will win again at Harbour Town this week.

+(after round one he is SIX STROKES back! YIKES!)

[PThomas]

certainly one of the most important courses in gca history, as it started to reverse the Trent Jones school

I want to play it, but big bucks ...and it's not well maintained, I'm told, which is truly sad considering the cost

[Matt MacIver]

I heard poor maintenance was a problem too, but last fall it was great.  

The best time to play it....is next week.  

[Anthony_Nysse]

The conditioning of Harbor Town is a difficult one. They overseed because of the Heritage and also because their busy season is the fall, winter and spring when the bermuda is dormant. Because of the ryegras, they have to water everything, but because of the dense forest that surrounds each hole, HT has diffucult growing conditions and has a VERY hard time getting things dried out. Now during the transition from rye to bermuda, the lack of sunlight and the heavy overseed make it very difficult for the bermuda to poke through the ryegrass canopy. During the renovation in 2000, HT had removed many trees, but not as many as a superintendent would like in an agrinomical sense. Pete wouldn't let them cut down the trees that they really needed to provide more sunlight and better growing conditions, and I understand why. The character of HT is tree lined fairways, tee shots out of caves and cutting down all these trees really would have taken HT's mystic away. They do the best they can with what they have.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[redanman]

Tony

Why do you think they persist with the trees so dense at HT?  Your tree control at LC is so much better; they need it more at HT because of the greater demand of public play even at high prices, but I wonder, have they ever asked Pete to come back since 2000?  They are only more dense now!

Bill

[Matt_Cohn]

(John Daly hit 14/14 fairways today)

[Anthony_Nysse]

Bill,
  To say that there trees at HT are dense is erring on the side of caution!  ;)I cannot answer that question completely other than LC has a much more open feel to the entire course and to some, part of the charm at HT, is the dense tree lined fairways. Everything is bigger here-our greens, fairways, bunkers and Pete designed it that way. I think that they keep the tree lines dense at HT to keep the homes out of view also. They is a ordinance here on HHI that makes it VERY difficult to cut trees down. We've actually had to go to the board of HHI to get permits and show what other Top 100 clubs are doing and how were being restricted. Much of our tree removal started after my boss arrived and we've been able to remove 200ish in his time here. We are currently looking at a massive tree removal, around 500, but like I said, it's VERY difficult to get permitting to do so.
  I'm quite sure that Pete has been back to HT since 2000. He comes here at least once a year and was supposed to be here this week and go to HT, but he got tied up in a few things.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Andy Troeger]

I played it in January and was pleasantly surprised. Before going down there I really didn't have that much interest, but the deal with the Inn was so good I couldn't resist ($139/night including golf...mandatory 2 nights and play one other course at the resort). The course was in pretty good shape then really, greens a little slow but nothing shocking. I enjoyed the layout too, but I do like trees more than most on here  I don't know if I'd run back for the normal in-season rate, but I certainly enjoyed the day!

[Jay Flemma]

I'll be playing it Wed.  Yes, it was the course that really catapulted Dye.  It proves a great course doesn't have to be overly long to challenge a broad class of players.

I see alot of the same style in Fowlers Mill in Ohio, most notably in holes like number 9.

Has anyone else played Fowlers?

Any tips for my round wed?  Specific things to look for?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Jay,
  I'm not a huge fan of HT, I think that it's VERY repetitive, but you'll be shocked, and I really mean shocked, as to how small the greens are and they do 40,000 rounds a year. Very flat and very small...

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Jay Flemma]

Anthony, those are two good tips.  I'll look for those features next week.  Thanks.

I like your tag line about friar's Head!

[Voytek Wilczak]

Jay,
  I'm not a huge fan of HT, I think that it's VERY repetitive, but you'll be shocked, and I really mean shocked, as to how small the greens are and they do 40,000 rounds a year. Very flat and very small...

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

From GCSAA.ORG:

Course statistics    Course characteristics
     Yardage    Par    Rating    Slope
Heritage    6973    71    75.2    146
Championship    6603    71    72.9    139
Regular    6119    71    70.0    126
Forward    5019    71    69.0    117
   
     Primary Grasses    Height of Cut
Tees    Tifsport    .375"
Fairways    419 Bermudagrass    .375"
Greens    Tifeagle    .115-.120
Rough    419 Bermudagrass    1"
Average tee size: 2,400 sq. ft.
Average green size: 4,000 sq. ft.
Rounds per year: 34,000
Acres of fairway: 24
Acres of rough: 45
Sand bunkers: 45
Water hazards: 12    Tournament stimpmeter: 10.5-11feet
Soil conditions: Sandy loam and clay
Green construction soil mix:  
(USGA 90% sand; 10% peat)
Source of water: Effluent
Drainage: Good

[John_Cullum]

Any tips for my round wed?  Specific things to look for?

If the weather is nice, look for bugs.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Jay,
  Another Tip-I'd put the par 3's up not only against anything the Dye has done, but also against any course anywhere.(#4, #7, #14, #17) and the short par fours are pretty good, with #9 and #16. I'd be interested to hear you thoughts after you play. The first time that I played I wondered what they hype was and then I got to my approach shot on #16....

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC