If someone asked you....

[TEPaul]

...a layman, to lay out and design them a golf course on an otherwise very pretty site but probably jam-packed into a residential development, would you do it? And if you did agree to do it is there anything particularly novel architecturally you might like to try in that otherwise semi-unappetizing situation? Mind you, me and my associate/partner, although neither of us has done anything to speak of before in architecture most certainly have to consider the extreme importance of protecting our incredibly valuable architectural reputations.  

[Mike_Sweeney]

Tom,

Talk to George Bahto about Stonebridge his original course tribute to Raynor:

http://www.stonebridgeglcc.com/guests/dsp_golfStats.cfm?course=1

This is a course you should see. It is jammed in spots by houses and roads and not enough land. However, there is some great stuff out there and has George (and his reputation) ever been busier?

A tribute course to Flynn?

PS. Merion is a housing tract!

[TEPaul]

"PS. Merion in a housing tract!"

PRECISELY!!

I told him if he gives us 100 acres for the course itself (since everything at Merion is on 126) and since a good slice of the strategy of Merion East is playing really close to the OB on the right on the other side of Ardmore Ave and very close to the OB on the left of the clubhouse side of Ardmore Ave, that we would do a course where the best strategy would be to play as close as possible to the plate glass windows of all the houses bordering on the golf course.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Yes.

[cary lichtenstein]

I thought Steve Smyers did a wonderful job on Southern Dunes in a site similiar to what you are discribing.

As smart as I think I am, I know enough that the only way to go is to hire a professional architect whose work you admire and respect and has done well will similiar difficult sites.

[TEPaul]

Thank you Pat. Is that a yes/yes or just a blanket yes?

Don't you think I should at least ask for their Master Plan or Mission Statement first?

What would you say if I told them I would not consider such a request without at least checking with my primary architectural consultant, Patrick Mucci?

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

How can you ask for a Master Plan or any plan when I haven't seen the property ?

[RJ_Daley]

NO, and given the situation of being jammed into residential, I wouldn't try anything novel even if I said yes, which I'm not.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

Of course not.*

Unless the property is some ideal combination of Sand Hills spatial remoteness combined with a nice ocean cliffside setting like Pac Dunes I'm going to continue to say no to any and all proposals, even though the incentive monies offered now approaches 8 figures.  

When will they learn not to come to me with just another basic plot of land.  Why do they continue to waste my time and theirs?  When will the madness end??

* Delusions of grandeur from a guy who would happily build a golf course on a silt field if given the land.  

[Brad Klein]

First create a single proprietor, limited liability company. Then buy $1 million professional liability insurance.

[cary lichtenstein]

Mike:

Very funny

Cary

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,
How can you ask for a Master Plan or any plan when I haven't seen the property?"

Hmmm, OK. Well, there's alway bullshit, isn't there, particularly when everyone knows sooner of later they will be meeting you anyway?  

[Doug Siebert]

If it was someone I knew and liked, I'd STRONGLY encourage them to hire someone who knows what the hell they are doing instead of hiring me because I like to golf and have seen more courses than most golfers (but less than the vast majority of GCAers)

If it was someone I didn't know or didn't like, I'd happily take their money and have a ball doing my best, and regularly picking the brains of gca.com membership for suggestions.

The most obvious design feature that would distinguish a Siebert design compared to other such housing tract courses is that I'd build some really wild and crazy greens, you can hide a lot of sins of bad design and routing with some fun and interesting greens, and closely mown chipping areas around the greens.  Hopefully when it rained the water wouldn't all pool up in the middle of them due to my complete lack of knowledge about drainage, turf health and pretty much everything that architects do for a living

[tonyt]

I get to design a golf course?

Even after my noble reminder to the client that there are pros out there who do this very well, and with me, they'd be getting a virgin novice who's greatest qualifications will end up being the decision to get a good designer's crew to actually build it?

Then yes, of course