white manor/ philadelphia

[archie_struthers]

 

Played White Manor in suburban Philly yesterday in the GAP Team Matches, hadn't played there since the recent Bobby Weed redo.  I was absolutely blown away by the quality of the renovation/redo and it is absolutely one of the hidden gems in the area.

Kudos to the members and the architect on a job well done!

[mike_malone]

 Archie,

    I think White Manor is a much better course now. I have some concerns about the plateaus in some of the uphill greens, particulary #9. I bet the members will tire of that severity. The addition of centerline bunkering is inspired.

[Dan Boerger]

Also agree with the positive comments about White Manor. I, too, played GAP matches yesterday. I played Pine Hill for the first time. Some really excellent holes, terrific clubhouse and a nice view of the Philly skyline. (Wish my tee ball found more fairways, however.) -Dan

[archie_struthers]

Mayday

We played it from over 7,000 yards yesterday and it was tough, but the greens were not too difficult.

Obviously a lot of the contours are tough but you have options. On #9 the pin was in a brutal spot (just over the bunker on the right) but you knew from the fairway that the shot was left and long. You have options and you can figure them out, that's what make it way cool for me.

 #13 in particularly is severe with that ridgeline running thru the green but the green is deep, giving plenty of room to pin both front and back of the green. But it created great interest on the second shot and chipping if you missed short or right, like me!

I really loved the new golf course, almost as much as Rolling Green! LOL

[Jason Mandel]

Archie,

Glad to hear you enjoyed your day at White Manor.  My brother played on the away team yesterday and was at Great Bay.

We are very happy with the work Bobby and Scot Sherman did for us at white manor and the job that our super super don brown has done maintaning the course.  

What were your favorite holes?  You need to come back later this summer when the fescue is up, it is a different course then.  Let me know anytime you want to come back for a 2nd shot.

Mike, I know you and Tom Paul both had some issues with the 9th green.  To be honest, I rarely hear any comments from other members regarding the feature.  The ball comes off the top of the hill more times than not, and for a lot of members it is a 3 shot hole so they are chipping it with their 3rd shot.


All in all the course is a joy to play day in and day out.

Jason

[Jason Mandel]

On #9 the pin was in a brutal spot (just over the bunker on the right) but you knew from the fairway that the shot was left and long. You have options and you can figure them out, that's what make it way cool for me.

 

Archie,

that is without a doubt the most brutal/difficult pin on that hole, impossible to get it close without getting lucky.

Jason

[mike_malone]

 Jason,

   Maybe the resolution of my concern will be that the pin doesn't get placed back left as it was the first time I played there.

[Jason Mandel]

Mayday,

I agree that it wouldn't hurt for the green to be a little deeper, and to be honest I think Scott and Bobby were a tad concerned that it was a bit too shallow, as I still remember them out there on opening morning rolling balls off that slope.  After all the construction we went through, I don't think we are going to do anything about it right now, we'll see how it plays for a few more years.

However, that pin is still back left a lot of the time, we haven't taken any pins out of the rotation as far as I know.

Jason

[wsmorrison]

I don't know if the White Manor renovation was recognized in any golf magazine rankings because I don't look at them.  Perhaps there is a lag and the results don't reflect the job done, but the course is so much better than it once was and is one of the really fine courses in our district.  It is fun and challenging, the best of combinations.  

I spoke with Bobby and Scott during their work and realized wohat they were trying to accomplish.  I could not be more pleased for the membership.  I hope that they are rewarded with a full membership that loves the course as much as any of us on this site would.

[Jason Mandel]

Wayne,

The only award we received was a Golf Inc. magazine award for "Renovation of the Year" a few years ago.  That honor I believe was given to Forest Richardson's Wigwam renovation this year.

Our membership is doing great by the way, we are hoping to be back to full with a waiting list by the end of the summer!

Hope all is well, lets get out and play soon!  

Jason

[Dan Boerger]

Jason - When I played there last Fall (two rounds, one day), the most difficult pin position we experienced was on (correct me here if I'm wrong) the fourth hole (shortish par 5?). The pin was front left and it was an abslute bloodbath out there! - Dan

[Jason Mandel]

Dan,

Thats the par 5 6th hole where the green slopes from front to back.  Front left is a very difficult pin there, anything in the front is tough.


Jason

[TEPaul]

Jason:

The redo by Weed sure has made your course better, more fun and more interesting but you are right, that #9 green and that narrow shelf has got to be fixed. They should just do it. It wouldn't be hard to do. Call me and let's talk about it.

[wsmorrison]

Jason,

I hope we can get together sometime early this year.  I look forward to it.  Home and home would be very welcome!  Glad to hear the membership issue is looking way up.  Spend money to make money. Brilliant!

[Wayne Freeman]

I was fortunate to play White Manor after the redo and thought they did a fantastic job.  I particularly enjoyed the back nine, and thought the greens were awesome.  Some of the prettiest holes I've seen in that area.  
   Actually the only hole I had some issues with was the first.  The blind tee shot was ok, but then you have a downhill second shot to a skinny little green that goes away from you with a hazard right in front of the green.  I would think that starting hole drives the members nuts.  Just curious about some others' opinions.  

[Jason Mandel]

I was fortunate to play White Manor after the redo and thought they did a fantastic job.  I particularly enjoyed the back nine, and thought the greens were awesome.  Some of the prettiest holes I've seen in that area.  
   Actually the only hole I had some issues with was the first.  The blind tee shot was ok, but then you have a downhill second shot to a skinny little green that goes away from you with a hazard right in front of the green.  I would think that starting hole drives the members nuts.  Just curious about some others' opinions.  

Wayne,

I would say that is probably the most controversial hole on the course in my opinion and among most of the members.  I too believe the blind tee shot is fine, but depending on the distance that second shot is soo tough.  To be fair, the green doesn't really run away from you , its more tilted back to fron than front to back, but its definitily the shallowest green on the course.

A lot can depend on the drive on that hole, a good drive and you can be anywhere from 120-140 left if its really hard, but if you dont get a good bounce you can be in that 160-180 range which can be a tough shot off a downhill lie over a creek.  A lot of members will choose to lay up to the creek and take their chance chipping and putting for a par, not wanting to risk a big number on the first hole.

I will say this, Scot Sherman, Bobby's assistant has told me that they would ideally and ultimately like to reverse the nines, making the first hole less of an issue, but I think thats a little while's away if it ever happens.  

I have mixed feelings about that as well, as I think 1 and 2, and probably 3,4 and 5 would be better served on the back side, I think 16, 17 and 18 are much better finishing holes than 6,7,8,9.

Any thoughts from those that have played on possibly reversing the nines?

Jason

[mike_malone]

 Jason,

   It always creates challenges when the clubhouse location determines the layout. I found #10 tee shot to be awkward. That downhill #1 and#10 and uphill #9 and#18 puts great strain on routing.

[TEPaul]

"It always creates challenges when the clubhouse location determines the layout. I found #10 tee shot to be awkward. That downhill #1 and#10 and uphill #9 and#18 puts great strain on routing."

Mayday, my man;

I'm sure by now you realize that there're a number of fundamental truths in golf architecture, and particularly with routing, and like golf itself sometimes those fundamental truths can possess a high degree of "oppositeness" from the way seemingly normal people such as yourself might intuit things.

However, so that you will refrain in the future from making stupid remarks like that one above, I should tell you that one of the fundamental truths of the "oppositeness" of golf architectural routing is;

"What goes down must come up."

[archie_struthers]

Jason et al

I don't think that reversing the nines would be a good idea, particularly as the tee shot on #10 is probably the tightest on the golf course. Nothing worse than a bunch of reloads off numero uno.

As to the existing first hole it appears there is enough room to have pushed the green back a little if Weed wanted to.
However the slope is so severe that in the summer the shot can't play more than 150 yards for most players. I'd probably be more concerned that you could drive it through the fairway on a hot summer day. Is this a common occurrence?

As previously stated, I thought the redo is outstanding!

[Jason Mandel]

Archie,

I've never seen anyone drive it through the fairway meaning to the end of the fairway.  What does happen sometimes is players will hit what they thought was a good drive but because it being so downhill left to right is that it runs off the fairway to the right into that grass bunker area where you can either have a sidehill lie or be in that grass bunker area which makes it a really tough shot.

Jason

[Jason Mandel]

I just signed up for photobucket and am trying to upload some of the picks that James B. took of white manor on Sunday.

Please bear with me as I try this.  Below are some holes that have been talked about

1st hole



2nd hole



2nd hole from behind green


4th hole


4th hole from behind green


7th hole downhill 330 yard par 4


12th hole par 3


13th hole 450 yard par 4


13th green



I have lots more but I'm just trying to figure this photobucket thing out.  

Hopefully this works.

Jason

[James Bennett]

Well done Jason.

Cameras are amazing - those pictures are better in terms of visibility than the actual conditions on the day.  Glad to see the pictures worked too - thanks to club champ Marc Mandel's camera.  As the english here would say 'a nice bit of kit'.

James B

[Jason Mandel]

James,

Thanks to you for taking all of these great pics!  IM me your address and I'll get a CD out to you asap.  I also uploaded all of them to photobucket.  

Jason

[Bill Shotzbarger]

I know those jugs are the club's logo, but what are they used for? Divot sand?

[Jason Mandel]

Bill,

Yes, they are used on the par 3's to hold divot sand.  The supoerintendents father  or father in law is a welder and he created them.

I'm not the biggest fan of the prolific use of them(their's also a small version used as the different tee marks) but its a give and take .  In other words it beats the old form of asthetics, FLOWER BEDS

Jason