Why Some see Courses Differenty

[Jordan Wall]

I have never really liked adding trees or adding 700 yards of length to a course.  But in all reality, I cannot do anything about that.  And for another thing, I am used to the changes courses are continually presenting. When I started to play golf, a little over eighteen months ago, courses were already really long, and so when I see the PGA courses realy long it doesnt surprise me.

But then there are some people that see courses and think that the length, trees, whatever a course does does not help a course and really is a big disaster.  They look at Augusta and think that then trees are horrible and the course shouldnt have added all those tees and everything, which is perfectly fine and I have nothing wrong with people feeling that.

My question, however, is why people see courses like that and how it does and will affect the game of golf.

I started playing golf late 2004, and by this time many courses were already lengthened, the whole 9 yards, and that can be said for even local courses in my area.  But then some other people, who are maybe older then me, and grew up in the 50's, 60's, and 70's look at the whole 9 yards (the whole 9 yards = length, trees, whatever else a course has done) and see how it is affected a course for the worse and how much better the course was before the changes.

Is the reason some people see courses differently simply due to age and when you first start to play golf compared to people of other ages?

And, if kids like me begin to play golf and courses are really long and tough, is that good for the game and the future of the game??  For future players??

[Eric Franzen]

And, if kids like me begin to play golf and courses are really long and tough, is that good for the game and the future of the game??  For future players??

That depends on what kind of game we prefer.

A game that put emphasis on length and straightness?
A game that premiers fantasy and strategy?

[TEPaul]

Jordan:

Yours are good questions. Perhaps the best answer, albeit it a fairly general one, is that everyone, no matter what their age, should endeavor to understand history as well as they can lest they repeat it.

[Brad Klein]

Jordan,

perhaps with a little (or a lot) of education on architecture and experiencing the recognized classics that helped shape the tradition of golf course design, you'd cultivate a different perspective.

That means a lot of reading, a lot of travel, and a lot of walking and studying, not just playing those courses for a score.

[cary lichtenstein]

In Chicago, the ground really didn't dry out until August 1 every year, so it was hit it with a persimmon wood, balata ball, and the ball you sit right next to it mark in the fairway with a bit of mud on it. Maybe it would go 215 or 220, and there was plenty of side spin.

The courses were very tight, and the doglegs turned at 200 yards off the tee, so you hard you move your ball right or left as the hole demanded.

The ball would do all sorts of things it does not do now. I haven't hit a pop up in years, or seen a drive balloon. Somehow the technology has straighteded this all out.

The greens were 100% poa annua. You knew the moisture content by the weather, so you knew what kind of chip shot to hit based on the your feel for the weather, the humidity, the time of day. I would hit a 3 different chip shots dependent whether it was 7:30 am, noon or 4 pm on the same exact hole and lie and pin placement.

We all carried 1 irons, and hit all kinds of punch cuts, punch hooks from the trees.

And that my friend........is why some see courses differently

[Jordan Wall]

Jordan,

perhaps with a little (or a lot) of education on architecture and experiencing the recognized classics that helped shape the tradition of golf course design, you'd cultivate a different perspective.

That means a lot of reading, a lot of travel, and a lot of walking and studying, not just playing those courses for a score.

This is my goal for life.

To learn and understand the older and classic courses, and to become an architect, that is my dream.

[A_Clay_Man]

The answer really takes time. And then, hopefully, after you have done your homework, you can put aside you own personal preferences, be objective and still enjoy yourself.

[Jim Thompson]

Jordan,

GREAT TOPIC!

I think that the answer to how we view things is based firmly in our expectations of aesthetic, functional, and playability values.  Consider your affirmed choices to the following very general questions:

A good drive is one that...
  a)  comes to rest in the middle of the fairway
  b)  comes to rest at the edge of a fairway
  c)  covers the greatest distance
  d)  leaves a full swing for the next shot
  e)  requires the player to make a strategic decision
  f)  gives the player a firm target
  g)  requires faith or memory to execute

Ideally a great bunker is one that...
  a)  is aesthetically pleasing
  b)  is punitive
  c)  demands or requires angles to avoid
  d)  is functional
  e)  represents the stylistic theme of the course
  f)  creates a strategic choices for the player
  g)  visible from the line of play
  h)  hidden or obscured at all or various time during the playing of the hole

Green surfaces should be...
  a)  shot testing targets
  b)  comprised of significant internal contours
  c)  visible from the line of play
  d)  varied in compostion and demands
  e)  similar in fashion as to express a theme
  f)  subtle in grade and slope
  g)  massive in size and scale

In general fairways should be...
  a)  flat
  b)  firm
  c)  gently rolling
  d)  rumpled
  e)  cambered
  f)   linear
  g)  meandering and curving
  h)  tightly cut
  i)   full of defined landing zones

Great golf holes are designed...
  a)  from tee to green
  b)  from green to tee
  c)  by finding a green setting first then planning from tee to green
  d)  downhill
  e)  by finding an maximizing scenic vistas

Green complexes should always...
  a)  be well protected by external features
  b)  be in plain view of the approach shot
  c)  offer a variety of methods for approach
  d)  change approach methods based on pin locations
  e)  be very devious in presentation to the palyer
  f)  avoid fronting or carry hazards
  g)  elevated or frontally mounded
  h) avoid  ditches or water features
  i)  provide a bail out or collection area
  j)  avoid going away from the line of play

Rough areas should be...
  a)  punitive
  b)  generous
  c)  lush
  d)  hard and thin
  e)  patchy
  f)  hard pan
  g)  striped
  h)  natural or native
  i)  varied

Trees exist for the purpose of...
  a)  adding aestheic value to the course
  b)  framing views
  c)  creating strategic edges and corners
  d)  to make decking for around the clubhouse
  e)  being aerial bunkers
  f)  providing shade for players
  g) display in the form of specimen trees
  h) showing the native species of the area and site

The trajectory of a shot should...
  a)  be defined by the target
  b)  be varied based on method of approach chosen

The strategic portion of golf design is...
  a)  directional
  b)  lineal
  c)  trajectile
  d)  dependent on ability to shape a shot

Water on a golf course...
  a)  creates drama
  b)  provide irrigation sources
  c)  is a ounitive element
  d)  increases pro shop sales
  e)  used to create a source for fill
  f)  a necessary visual element

A great routing...
  a)  creates the best 18 holes when taken as a hole
  b)  always has a gentle opener and three to five dramatic closing holes
  c)  creates the greatest number of residential lots
  d)  never has a par three in the first two holes
  e)  never has more than three par fours in a row
  f)  has a par of 70 - 74
  g)  must create 7000+ yards of play
  h)  has 18 distinct landing areas
  i)  has multiple landing areas per hole per tee
  j)  is walker freindly
  k) isolates hole corridors from each other
  l)  creates communal golf views

These are just a few and you may pick as many answers as you like to each.  The answers from this group and the public are as varied as they come and will be in various combinations.

Good Luck!

JT

[Peter Pallotta]

Jim Thompson:
Wow!
What a wonderfully smart and generous answer you provided our young friend Jordan. I'm glad he seems to be the kind who'll really appreciate what he's been given. I hope he gets the chance (and seizes the opportunity) to make the very most of it. It's like I've just read a chapter of "Portrait of a Golf Course Architect as a Young Man".

For me, I'm gonna print your answer up and carry it around with me, and use it to impress my friends. It's given me enough ways to think about golf course architecture for years to come. Thanks...  

Regards
Peter  

[Eric Franzen]

Jordan,

Your passion and healthy curiosity for GCA amazes me when I see that you only have been playing golf for 18 months.

Keep you passion intact, work hard and your dreams shall come true.
 

[redanman]

Jordan

Yours is a great example of opinion derived from exposure.  As you gain a few years, travel, become exposed by experience, reading and something other than the " Entertainment Arena"  that is professional golf I propose that you will have a different opinion.  

You are today based upon your experiences ahead of the game and asking good questions.

As I recall, the PacNW is your home and that is no place from which to judge architecture in person, it is a specialized niche due to the climate, indigenous turf and flora speciae.  My WA state experiences have left me a little cold (and damp )

Keep an open mind and keep plugging, good for you, kid.

[Tags:]

Tags: