Did Clark just break a rule???

[Justin_Zook]

Did I just see Clark hit his tee shot on 6 after the horn sounded?  I am pretty sure I did and I'd even be willing to put some money on it.  Those who are on the ball technologically (owning a TIVO unit) could tell us.  

I checked the rules and Rule 6-8b(USGA) says this...

b. Procedure When Play Suspended by Committee

When play is suspended by the Committee, if the players in a match or group are between the play of two holes, they must not resume play until the Committee has ordered a resumption of play. If they have started play of a hole, they may discontinue play immediately or continue play of the hole, provided they do so without delay. If the players choose to continue play of the hole, they are permitted to discontinue play before completing it. In any case, play must be discontinued after the hole is completed. The players must resume play when the Committee has ordered a resumption of play.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF Rule 6-8b: Disqualification.

What's the deal?  He hadn't started play yet on 6.  Are there 2 sounds of the horn that constitute an alert that play "has been suspended"?  Is this splitting hairs?  

[peter_p]

IMO, he did not. The operative decision is 6-8b/7.
The last part of the answer gives examples of Committe decisions that are justified in light of the circumstances.
Example d) a player, having addressed the ball, completes his swing without hesitation - no penalty.

In addition, there was probably a rules person at the tee who would have witnessed this, and he did nothing to keep Clark's playing partner from starting the hole.

[Justin_Zook]

Yes.  I see "6-8b/7" now Peter.  I agree...no penalty should be administered.  

[TEPaul]

Justin:

Yeah, It's probably splitting hairs. It seemed to me Clark was just about in the act of the stroke on his tee shot when the horn began to sound or was sounding. I wasn't paying all that close attention but my first thought was that the horn might bother him in his swing. Apparently not---he hit it very close and chose to mark and finish the hole out tomorrow morning.

BTW, as Lanny said, if one competitor gets his shot in before the horn blows (finishes blowing) the other competitor(s) have the option of teeing off after the horn and finishing the hole if they so choose. Did Clark's fellow competitor, Els, tee off after Clark? Also, competitors do not have to agree to all finish or none finish. In Els' case, obviously he could've chosen to tee off or not.

It seems like what you're really asking or want to ask is if Clark should be DQed for getting his swing in either during or just after the horn (or all the blasts were sounded). When committees suspend play for a dangerous situation or darkness the procedure is someone counts down over the radio and a number of officials are positioned around the course who blow their airhorns on the count down of 5,4,3,2,1. Not all the horns are completely simultaneous. Believe me, Justin, I hope there's no tournament committee out there who would even bother to check the tape on something as petty as Clark teeing off during or just after the horns sounded.

Generally speaking the idea of officiating is to help players and not look for some technical way to penalize them. I'm not saying any Rules official should overlook a real breach of a Rule but something like the suspension horn for darkness tonight in the Masters and what Clark did is not worth even looking into as a breach of the "Discontinuance" Rule.

[Pat Howard]

I had the same question when I saw the shot on tv. It appeared that the horn went off before Clark started his swing.

However, I think it's a matter of whether or not Clark had grounded his club in addressing the ball before the horn sounded. If he did so, he has addressed the ball and therefore would be permitted to finish the shot and, ultimately, the hole. If not, he has not officially addressed the ball and would not be allowed to take his swing.

In Clark's case, it looked as if he was addressing the ball with the club grounded when the horn sounded. So I think he's ok on this one.

That's my take on it. I've been wrong before and I will be again!

[Nick Pozaric]

when play is suspended due to darkness the players have the option of finishing the hole they are on

[peter_p]

Nick,
We know. The question is whether they were on the hole and playing it when the horn sounded.

[TEPaul]

Pat Howard:

Your take is not applicable. The grounding of the club is only applicable if the golf ball happens to move and also involves taking one's stance preparatory to making a stroke.

In the case of Clark playing his shot before the horn (finished sounding) is technically a matter of whether or not he has begun his swing before the horn finished sounding. A player is considered to have begun his swing after the forward movement of his swing with the intention of striking the ball.

But, as I mentioned to Justin, I very much doubt that any tournament committee, and certainly not the Masters tournament committee is going to bother to look at a tape to determine if Clark had actually begun the forward movement of his swing with the intention of striking the ball before every airhorn on that golf course had finished sounding to discontinue play due to darkness. To review something like that would be, in my opinion, ridiculously petty.

[Ryan Farrow]

from what i remember, he just started his backswing when the horn sounded. I usally have the masters recording on my computer but because of the delay i did not.

Why would any player want to putt after the horn. If i were them i would watch a tape of all the putts on that green and see if anyone had the same line. I bet clark is sitting infront of a TV now.

[Jim_Kennedy]

As was mentioned earlier, he had no reaction to it. The sound of the horn we all heard had a remote quality to it so it came from some distance and probably didn't reach Clark until a second later than we all heard it.

[TEPaul]

"Why would any player want to put after the horn."

Because, as Lanny rather cogently said, it just seems a bit more normal to come out in the morning and start your round with a tee shot rather than a putt.  

But the point is Rule 6-8 gives players the option simply because the Rules of Golf does not pretend to decide what all golfers prefer and don't prefer.  

[Sean Leary]

Clark said in his interview that it was getting dark and that the greens would be better in the morning since no one will have played.  The second part of this is not a bad point particularly on a shortish putt...........

[Ryan Farrow]

That is a good point, especially on a short putt, u know it will roll nice in the morning. But if i have a long put i would want to see how it moves on the other players shots before me. Or maybe i am more used to NFL pre-game scouting and not so much feel.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Here's another.  I just saw Vijay's drive on 17 hit Couples ball and move it, what looked to be, a few inches further down the fairway.  Isn't Couples required to replace his ball?  TV made this possible.  Without it the two players never would have known.

You rules hounds out there enlighten me.

JC

[ed_getka]

Guys,
   There must be something better you can do with your time than watch for rules infractions.

[JohnV]

Where is Shivas to tell us that Clark cheated by not finishing the hole like he tried to tell us that Tiger did last year when Tiger chose not to finish #10 on Saturday night?

I couldn't tell if Singh's ball moved Freddy's or not.  If so and they found out about it before they played, they would have to put it back.  If they didn't find out about it before they hit their next shots there would be no penalty.

I wonder what Singh was moving on the fringe next to 16 after his bunker shot.  I couldn't tell if it was pine needles or sand.  If it was sand he would have a problem (sand is only a loose impediment on the putting green).  I assume it was pine needles.