Give pro's a free drop from fairway divots

[Jim Nugent]

Here I am, resurrecting another old theme.  But yesterday's events seem to make it timely.

I couldn't believe it when I saw Tiger dump his 3rd shot into the water at 15.  How could the world number one, who is also the best with his wedge, swing the club the way he did, on a shot where he is the top expert on the planet?

This morning I read the reason why.  TW's 2nd shot ended up in a divot, half buried under the back side of it.  The lie was so bad, Woods apparently thought about playing around the pond, and then chipping to try to get up and down for par.  

Almost surely this cost him two shots.  Maybe three.  

Change the rule.  If a ball stops in a fairway divot, give the player a free drop.  What is the downside?  

We can't make golf competely fair.  But when we can make it more fair, we should.

Will be especially telling if Woods ends up losing by a stroke or two.    

[mike_malone]

 I didn't see the shot but shouldn't a top player realize that layups  have a tendency to come to rest in the same low areas and that wedges are used from there that create deep divots?

[Dan Herrmann]

So the amateurs wouldn't get a free drop?  

[redanman]

Delete this thread and play "golf"

       

[PThomas]

game isn't supposed to be totally fair

then why shouldn't they be able to fix spike marks too?

all this also adds too much time

if you get a good break off of a tree, then maybe you'd have to throw the ball into the woods where it deserved to go

[David Wigler]

Jim,

Here is a small counterpoint.  My worry is that the Jack Nicklaus school of golf would dictate that basically every single ball is in a divot of some kind.  In the end, there would no longer be any bad lies and basically every time someone got even a marginal lie, they would claim an old unrepaired divot.  At that point, we may as well play winter rules in PGA events.  I remember Payne Stewart's Divot that may have cost him another major but I still believe in playing the ball down and dealing with adversity.

[archie_struthers]

Luck has always been a great part of the game.

New clubs, perfect greens , consistent bunkers have changed this in many ways

Let's not advocate any more changes that further this trend.

Maybe he should have chipped it to the right of the green, what would Jack have done??

[Bruce Katona]

It's pretty stupid to have to play out of a bad situation when you were careful enough to place your lay-up in the fairway.  If the ball is out of the fairway, play as it lies.  In the fairway, this seems an undue penalty.

[ChasLawler]

This morning I read the reason why.  TW's 2nd shot ended up in a divot, half buried under the back side of it.  The lie was so bad, Woods apparently thought about playing around the pond, and then chipping to try to get up and down for par.  

Almost surely this cost him two shots.  Maybe three.  

If he knew the lie was THAT bad, he could have easily putted his ball into a better position.

I can sympathize with this dilemma, as it's happened to me in tournament play as well, but that's golf and you deal with it.

Besides…where would you draw the line with the age of the divot?

[PThomas]

Jim,

Here is a small counterpoint.  My worry is that the Jack Nicklaus school of golf would dictate that basically every single ball is in a divot of some kind.  In the end, there would no longer be any bad lies and basically every time someone got even a marginal lie, they would claim an old unrepaired divot.  At that point, we may as well play winter rules in PGA events.  I remember Payne Stewart's Divot that may have cost him another major but I still believe in playing the ball down and dealing with adversity.

Payne used to argue the same, but even he came around to accept this rub of the green

[archie_struthers]

Hey David, what am I missing? I don't recall that Nicklaus ever was called out for seeking too many freebies.

[Tom Huckaby]

Forget what Jack would have done - let's guess what Tiger would have done given 10 tries at that exact same shot, exact same like... I'd say the other 9 times he gets it on the green, lie and all.  It wasn't THAT bad.  He just hit a bad shot.

Part of a champion makeup is to never admit you made a mistake... all of the great ones are this way.  No doubt is allowed to creep in.

As for changing the rules for this, Wigler hits the nail on the head - it's just too hard to define, slippery slope results.  Play it as it lies.

TH

[redanman]

Tiger actually handled it very badly.  His swing effort was pretty poor.  In tournament golf and especially #15 at Augusta, his best play was into the stands for a free drop.  He did not take short out of the equation very well.

I don't get the initial

"He might lose because of this" atttitude.

Dominus vobiscum all bow before Tiger?

[JESII]

Just out of curiosity, which side of this dilemna do you think Tiger would be on?

[PThomas]

and I didn't hear Tiger moaning about the fact that it was in a divot, kudos to him

[Craig Sweet]

Tiger did a little moaning....he said the lie was so bad that he thought about slamming a 7 iron into the grandstand, taking his drop, and chipping from there....in hindsight that was probably the better option...

[Scott Stearns]

Golf's lack of fairness is like life generally, and is one of the things i like about the game.  Overcoming adversity makes the game better, not worse.

and like Tom Meeks likes to say, if you didn't want to play from there, then why did you hit it there.

[rjsimper]

Tiger did a little moaning....he said the lie was so bad that he thought about slamming a 7 iron into the grandstand, taking his drop, and chipping from there....in hindsight that was probably the better option...

That wasn't moaning about the rule though, that was moaning about his luck - heck, I'd, as a bystander and half of a golf idealist, moan about that.

I do credit him for not yet coming up with a "they should change that rule" moan.  I'll change my mind when he cites that as the reason he loses the event by two and they should look into changing the rule.

Also agree that more often than not, he puts that shot on dry land somehow and he just got one of the bad swings on his first try.

[Jim Nugent]

If players abuse the new rule, then we can change it back.  I predict they won't.  But am interested to see how that tests out.

Not just for pro's.  For everyone.

I absolutely think you should be allowed to fix spike marks.

It also occurs to me that you are allowed to mark, clean and replace your ball on the green.  You are allowed to fix ball marks there, too.  If that line of reasoning applies on the green, why can't a far less invasive/less used rule apply in the fairway?

Slightly (!) highjacking my own thread, I believe soccer (football) should completely drop the offside rule.  Impossible to call right, mistakes are made every game, and sometimes matches are won/lost on blown decisions.    

[Tom Huckaby]

More illuminating, and dare I say fair to Tiger, is to not take his quotes out of context.  He went on to say:


It wasn't so much difficult as embarrassing.  Guys are playing up 7 and here I am "Guys, hold up, let me play my shot again."


He knows he hit a horrid shot.  

He's just already blocked it out and is laughing about it.  No way this gets brought up again after today, for any reason.  Not by him, anyway.

TH

[ed_getka]

I am stunned that someone who frequents this site would advocate a free drop from a divot. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I simply disagree.David W's slippery slope comment is right on, and the tree ricochet one was nice too.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jim - OK, you be the rulesmaker.  Give a definition of this divot from which you'd allow relief - one that would hold up to scrutiny.

Or is the suggestion that rules officials immediately paint white lines around divots, mark them as ground under repair?

I see a certain logic to allowing relief - because really what is a sand-filled divot if not very literally ground under repair - I just can't see a way to make this work in practice.

TH

[David Wigler]

Hey David, what am I missing? I don't recall that Nicklaus ever was called out for seeking too many freebies.

Archie,

What I meant was that Jack's glacial pace of play (And I am a Jack fan) would have become even worse if he was able to tap down spike marks (I envision him vacuuming the green between his ball and the hole and taking a drop from every marginal lie or demanding rulings over unrepaired divots.  Can you imagine what Gary Player might have done with this rule, given his far reaching interpretations of the identify and replace rule?

[Scott Stearns]

why not allow people to tee it up everywhere.  

or throw it at the hole

[Matt MacIver]

Didn't Payne Stewart bring this up to a USGA official after his incident?  The official basically said something like "guess you better practice hitting out of divots", which infuriated Payne...but the more he thought about the more he agreed, so he practiced it and eventually said it was the right call.  

Another reason to miss Payne.  

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