bacardi mixed with fazio- fort dallas miami

[james soper]

just announced- bacardi corporation (old cuban rhum company headquartered in miami and the bahamas) has hired tom fazio to design a super exclusive, invitation only, fort dallas golf club (the name of the original 19th century outpost that eventually became miami). fazio, who has never designed a course in miami, will use a 168 acre parcel formerly known as calusa country club (a barren windswept links course designed by mark mahannah in 1968. overall, not a bad track.
membership in the new club will range from 250k to 300k with 275 individual and corporate members. the land, about 12 miles southwest of downtown (kendall), is located in the middle of a simple residential community (land is hard to come by). the homes only surround the borders of the property, so large walls will be errected to ensure privacy. it appears the original course will be bulldozed. there will be 30 foot elevation changes and three winding waterways. groundbreaking begins this august with the opening slated for november 2007.
would have loved to see someone else work the site (coore and crenshaw, esler, doak, dye, moran).

[Sean Leary]

Sounds like exactly the type of course that Fazio should do based upon what his strengths are...Something needs to be created from nothing and the need to sell expensive memberships. Faz is the guy..

[Evan Fleisher]

Boy...that's out in what used to be the middle of nowhere (swampland)...now of course major suburbia.

Never played Calusa CC, but have played a few older muni tracks down that way; plenty of wind to take advantage of, but not much else.

[John Kavanaugh]

James,

Why Pete Dye...How is his track record for building exclusive private courses.  What about his work would make you think he would build a better private course for the members than Fazio..

[Patrick_Mucci]

would have loved to see someone else work the site (coore and crenshaw, esler, doak, dye, moran).[size=4x]

WHY ?[/size]

The land sits barely above sea level with no more than a 4' differential in elevation on the property.

It's basically flat and drainage can't be easy.

What would C&C, Esler, Doak, Dye and Moran have done without moving any dirt ?

OR, would they have to do what Fazio will probably do, and move dirt to create interest and better drainage.

Are you familiar with how many hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of dirt Doak moved at the golf course atTexas Tech ?

[james soper]

would have loved to see someone else work the site (coore and crenshaw, esler, doak, dye, moran).[size=4x]

WHY ?[/size]

The land sits barely above sea level with no more than a 4' differential in elevation on the property.

It's basically flat and drainage can't be easy.

What would C&C, Esler, Doak, Dye and Moran have done without moving any dirt ?

OR, would they have to do what Fazio will probably do, and move dirt to create interest and better drainage.

Are you familiar with how many hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of dirt Doak moved at the golf course atTexas Tech ?

i never said dirt wouldn't have to be moved. however, based on what i've seen and played, i know i would probably like their sand castles more than fazio's.

[Patrick_Mucci]

James,

Which one of C&C's courses have you seen and played where they moved a lot of dirt ?

[james soper]

with all due respect, i never once said "a lot of dirt had to be moved". you implied that due to the location. however, a great walkable strategic low profile course could be had on this particular parcel without moving "hundreds of thousands cubic yards of dirt".
as for coore and crenshaw, the courses i played had little dirt movement. we both know they don't move much dirt. fazio has a different philosophy. sounds like the owner wants some razzle dazzle and that's what will happen.

[james soper]

James,

Why Pete Dye...How is his track record for building exclusive private courses.  What about his work would make you think he would build a better private course for the members than Fazio..

the original medalist would fit the bill.

[Patrick_Mucci]

with all due respect, i never once said "a lot of dirt had to be moved". you implied that due to the location. however, a great walkable strategic low profile course could be had on this particular parcel without moving "hundreds of thousands cubic yards of dirt".
as for coore and crenshaw, the courses i played had little dirt movement. we both know they don't move much dirt. fazio has a different philosophy. sounds like the owner wants some razzle dazzle and that's what will happen.

James Soper,

Based on my limited discussions with Bill Coore, I doubt that they would accept the project.

The land doesn't offer much in the way of interest.
It's not land great for golf, as compared to the Sand Hills of Nebraska, which Bill Coore described as the best land for golf in America.

If C&C's strength is in minimalism, why would you champion their efforts on a flat, boring piece of land, versus Fazio ?

[james soper]

pat, once again you confused the issue. i never said coore and crenshaw would want the project. i said that i would have loved to see what they would have done with the project. my thought process was that a minimalist and/or a traditionalist could do some interesting things with routing, native grasses, and playing options. if you put them side by side with fazio on the same piece of land, i guarantee you would see something entirely different.