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Marty Bonnar

Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« on: April 06, 2006, 05:42:19 PM »
Our, always splendid, BBC coverage of the tourney, just had Ken Brown out on the course in the 'wee small hours of the morning' with the greens staff (this morning, I assume).
In the maintenance building, the Super is saying things like:
"Okay, Benny, fourteen, double freakie"
"Debs, eleven, double freakie"

He then draws on the blackboard - for Ken's benefit, what the Double Freakie is.

Turns out a 'Double Freakie' is a FOUR way cut of a Green.
(Once then twice back along the same line, then once and twice at 90 degrees to it)

Maybe 'Bikini Waxing' was the most insightful comment ever made about Augusta?

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Jim Sweeney

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2006, 07:46:25 PM »
OK, Martin, I'll bite.

What effect do you think this "double freaky" thing has on the greens? Unless they lower the mowing heights for the second pass, retracing the initial mowing pattern backwards, the effect ought to be not so much a further increase in green speed, but a smoother, more consistent putting surface with no grain.

Since today's cultivars and maintenance practices produce almost no grain when maintained as at ANGC with even "single freaky" mowing, it would be hard to argue that "double freaky" mowing has more than a very marginal effect, except that they can feel they are doing everything possible to make the greens as good as they can be.

Of course, these comments come from a non-superintendent. So someone straighten me out!
"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

Garland Bayley

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2006, 08:03:21 PM »
Do you suppose an announcer will be barred from announcing the Masters if he announces, "they must have pulled a double freakie on that green!"?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2006, 08:48:21 PM »
Jim,
  We do something very similar...we mow down and back on the same pass, meaning we mow the entire green and then mow it again and the "dark green" pass. (the grass is laying towards you) We mow forward on the "dark green" line to make sure that were getting the grass to stand up, were getting a very good cut and trying to take out some grain.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Brian Phillips

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2006, 02:42:05 AM »
Tony,

So that in effect makes the greens easier, faster but easier to read?

Brian.
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2006, 06:10:51 AM »
Brian,
  Not really easier. We do to get an even better cut, but it really smooths the surface out. We try to do it once a week, minumum, instead of rolling. (rolling causes compaction, which causes...blah, blah, blah...) You'd be surprised how much grass is cut on the second pass!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 06:11:13 AM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Marc Haring

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2006, 06:22:44 AM »
Double or triple cutting is really standard procedure for any event these days, even a club championship so mowing four times for the Masters is only to be expected.

At Harrogate this year for the greenkeepers conference, I forget who it was but someone stated in their presentation that the greens at Troon in the 1962 Open were cut twice.............not for the day but for the whole championship!!!!

How things have changed.

Sean Remington (SBR)

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2006, 06:59:19 AM »
   Mowing up and back the same pass is very common. In this case they are doing this twice per green and in affect cutting the green four times. I'm sure this is followed by rolling.

   The thing everyone needs to keep in mind is there is no grain. Johnny are you listening? NO GRAIN. The greens are cut so close and have been manicured and preped for several weeks prior. There is no grain. If there was grain on the greens you could see light and dark mowing lines, you can't. Mowing up and back is a great tournament preparation practivce but under these extreme situations it is done more for the smoothing affect it has on the surface.

TEPaul

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2006, 09:19:59 AM »
I'd just like to know what mow height they're using no matter how many ways they're mowing them. Mow height can be pretty indicative of speed and then of course rolling generally increases speed up to a foot or so. For us a mow height of .105 and some rolling seems to produce around 11 and so if ANGC is just under 1/10 they're probably between 11-12. Just watching the last bit of roll and some "ball creep" yesterday they look to me to be between 11-12. I would think with green slope and contour like ANGC's that's pretty close to boarder-line.

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2006, 09:57:36 AM »
TEPaul,
  I know alot of courses that have Championship such at a US Open will mow there greens below .080. In fact, Olympia Fields was down to .065 for the 2003 Open. We're not quite that low, but we are below .100 and we're running about 11.25 after a double cut and roll. Ernie Els is a member of a local course and was there all last week practicing. The greens were running 12.5 and he asked if they could get them to 13 cause that would be Augusta like!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 10:02:26 AM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2006, 10:12:50 AM »
Yes, yes, all true -- but Augusta's the only one with the Double Freakie (TM)!!!!

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2006, 03:41:28 PM »
  There is no grain. If there was grain on the greens you could see light and dark mowing lines, you can't.

Sean,
  To a degree correct, but keep in mond that Crenshaw Bentgrass doesn't mow stripes like a penncross, A-1, A-4 or L-93, etc...Crenshaw is very colorless-Look at East Lake when the Tour Championship is there, or Quail Hollow when the Wachovia Championship is there...both are on Crenshaw Bentgrass, a much more heat tolerant bentgrass.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Sean Remington (SBR)

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2006, 04:34:15 PM »
Tony,

   Your saying ANGC greens are Crenshaw? I thought they were A's. No matter. Do you really think any variety mowed below .080" and rolled is going to show a mowing pattern?

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2006, 05:12:41 PM »
Sean,
  I agree, most any greens mowed THAT low won't show much for stripes! It can be seen faintly on an overseeded green. The greens may have A-1 seeded into them, but because of Crenshaw's heat tolerence, almost ever course in Northern Georgia has Crenshaw. Many courses in the Charlotte area also have Crenshaw. Musgrove Mill in upstate SC has Penncross with some A's interseeded into them.-No matter what, Bent will ALWAYS be better than bermuda grass! ;)

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 05:13:35 PM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Marty Bonnar

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2006, 05:29:06 PM »
I think I recall Oor Ken mention that he heard the Super saying the cut was 1/8th of an inch.
That sounds like about 3mm. Maybe Eddie, if he's around could remind us what TOC green cut height is?
BTW, what is all this .080 stuff anyway? Who on earth combines decimal fractions with an Imperial measuring system. Damn Uppity Colonials! ;D

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Kyle Harris

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2006, 05:32:36 PM »
Our, always splendid, BBC coverage of the tourney, just had Ken Brown out on the course in the 'wee small hours of the morning' with the greens staff (this morning, I assume).
In the maintenance building, the Super is saying things like:
"Okay, Benny, fourteen, double freakie"
"Debs, eleven, double freakie"

He then draws on the blackboard - for Ken's benefit, what the Double Freakie is.

Turns out a 'Double Freakie' is a FOUR way cut of a Green.
(Once then twice back along the same line, then once and twice at 90 degrees to it)

Maybe 'Bikini Waxing' was the most insightful comment ever made about Augusta?

FBD.

I just emailed my turf prof at PSU regarding this term to see if the origins lie there. Last I heard (2002) the superintendent at Augusta was a Penn State turf grad.  ;D

Also, double the mowing patterns will do nothing (unless the mowers are subsequently lowered) to green speed, but will make measures of difference in both smoothness and grain. Can also be effective in slowing the build up of thatch in the greens - making plug core aerification a bit more effective (or even not necessary).

**SEE BELOW RESPONSES**
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 05:49:22 PM by Kyle Harris »

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2006, 05:41:52 PM »
Kyle,
  I don't know what your position is in the golf world, but I disagree with you 100% in saying that double cutting will not result in a quicker green. Granted, you may not see a drastic change if your greens are already running over 11.5.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 05:51:01 PM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Kyle Harris

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2006, 05:44:56 PM »
Sorry Tony, perhaps I've been misinformed or misexperienced. How does that work? You can get technical.  ;D

I had been under the impression that the purpose of double cutting was to eliminate imperfections and other inconsistencies that are created in a single sweep of a mower (waviness or whatever, depending on the type). I also seperate smoothness, green speed, and graininess into three seperate, but interdependent categories.

Perhaps a more correct statement (based on my above criteria) would be the smoothness allows the true green speed to be realized?

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2006, 05:55:15 PM »
Kyle,
  Double cutting just allows for such a true cut on the greens, along with getting the grass to stand up a little bit more. I also look at it like a "lite" roll, too. One would be surprised as to how much grass can be cut on the second or third time. Granted, a combination of turf growth regulators such as primo, embark, and proxy(cool season grasses) will slow your grass growth down, resulting in quicker greens throughout the day and and less clippings in the morning. This also can cut back on continuing to have to double cut.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 05:55:31 PM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Kyle Harris

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2006, 05:59:50 PM »
Tony,

I've noticed something similar with our front lawn (we have a scissors type mower, so at lenghts of an inch or so, the grass looks wavy unless I double cut), the cut is more even and the grass stands straight up.

Having a Zoysia lawn helps too.  ;)

Anthony_Nysse

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2006, 06:03:54 PM »
Kyle...
  I used to double cut my lawn 3 times a week growing up-more for the stripes. My father is a superintendent and we use to fight over who got to mow the lawn. I wasn't allowed to play in it either. For my high school graduation open house, my dad took a Toro Sidewinder home from work! Now you want to talk about stripes.....

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Marty Bonnar

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2006, 06:19:14 PM »
Okay,
you boys are starting to scare us now. What with your nursery crymes avatars and your strange tales of Toros taken home.

There's clearly some bizarro greenskeeper brotherhood thing with dubious initiation practices which we can only begin to imagine. Maybe something involving ten feet of rubber tubing, a bucket of axle grease and a handful of Enmag. eh? "You can't handle the TRUTH!"

Would I not be correct in thinking that the LAST cut path will be the one which leaves the grass blades lying in a particular direction? (Given cultivar types, sun direction, wind, etc.)
Or does the 'multi-cut' actually spread them around?

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Kyle Harris

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2006, 06:20:36 PM »
Okay,
you boys are starting to scare us now. What with your nursery crymes avatars and your strange tales of Toros taken home.

There's clearly some bizarro greenskeeper brotherhood thing with dubious initiation practices which we can only begin to imagine. Maybe something involving ten feet of rubber tubing, a bucket of axle grease and a handful of Enmag. eh? "You can't handle the TRUTH!"

Would I not be correct in thinking that the LAST cut path will be the one which leaves the grass blades lying in a particular direction? (Given cultivar types, sun direction, wind, etc.)
Or does the 'multi-cut' actually spread them around?

FBD.

Gotta give you credit for knowing my Avatar, Martin.  :)

Marty Bonnar

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2006, 07:14:18 PM »
Kyle,
I wasn't always the be-suited, slightly balding yet still devastatingly handsome businessman-looking kinda guy you see over there on the left.
Once upon a 70s, I was the long-haired art-student with the latest Led Zep album under my arm (in the vain hope that she might notice it and think what a cool guy I must be).
I therefore had the opportunity to 'appreciate' most Genesis albums in various mental states (altered or otherwise!)
 ;)
FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Kyle Harris

Re:Augusta: Pullin' the 'Double Freakie'
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2006, 07:15:32 PM »
Kyle,
I wasn't always the be-suited, slightly balding yet still devastatingly handsome businessman-looking kinda guy you see over there on the left.
Once upon a 70s, I was the long-haired art-student with the latest Led Zep album under my arm (in the vain hope that she might notice it and think what a cool guy I must be).
I therefore had the opportunity to 'appreciate' most Genesis albums in various mental states (altered or otherwise!)
 ;)
FBD.

I appreciate them all on original vinyl  ;D

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