Island bunkers

[cary lichtenstein]

We have Island greens, how come no ever does any island bunkers?

Take number 17 at TPC for example, what if there were 2 island bunkers, one in front and one in back, separated by about 3 feet of water and little walk ways to get to them.

What a neat shot, miss the green and now you have to blast it over the water onto the green or redrop into the bunker. What fun!!

[Jfaspen]

Interesting idea Cary..  It might come into play more for the amatuer, but I think it'd definitly be a challenging shot.

[Kyle Harris]

See the old Jaws hole at Stone Harbor.

[Doug Siebert]

This sounds like the "double hazard" thing I hear some people on GCA really rail against from time to time.  Sounds like an interesting idea to me, and it would definitely add an aura of uncertainty to bogey golfers as to whether it was a good break going in that bunker or not once they realize they have to blast it out over water

If they put one behind that back right Sunday position at TPC #17 it would make for some very interesting drama for a shot that flies long and bounces into it.  Instead of being in the water they'd have a real dilemma as to whether they could go at the pin and stop it before it goes in the water off the other side, or they could play it safe towards the fat of the green but be forced to take bogey.

Someone email Pete Dye so it can be ready for next year!

[Mark_Fine]

Kyle points out one example of an island bunker at Stone Harbor.  We have a cool color photo of that hole in our book.  As most know, the island bunkers no longer exist.  

[Tom_Doak]

I had to play a shot from the island bunker at Stone Harbor, after my tee shot landed on top of the bulkhead at the edge of the green and bounced up and into the bunker.

I was left with trying to play over 30 feet of water toward about 50 feet of green with water on the other side ... out of footprints.  I fluffed it into the water.  To this day it was the most frightening and downright stupid shot I've ever been confronted with on a golf course.

[Mark_Fine]

I heard Tom Paul wants to restore that course    Is that true Tom?

[GDStudio]

Tom,

Stupid cause you fluffed it?  

[Tom_Doak]

Branden:

The bunkers were cat boxes of railroad ties completely filled with sand -- unless you were going to tiptoe along the bulkhead, you had to walk into the bunker through the entire length of the bunker, so there were going to be nothing but footprints in it at the end of each day.  A stupid situation to put the golfer in.

[Rick Shefchik]

Any course feature that makes the canoe a useful piece of golf equipment is not good for the game.

[Steve Pozaric]

Any course feature that makes the canoe a useful piece of golf equipment is not good for the game.

What about Cour d'Alene?  Maybe not a canoe, but a boat nonetheless.  Never having played the course, I don't have much to say about it from an architectural standpoint.

As a twist to your question, there is a course in St. Louis called Tapwingo that Ron Whitten described as having a feature he considered "architorture"

"Within the bunker are several islands of grass, and within one of these is--surprise!--a little pond. (Gary Player's company designed the course, but the pond-within-a-bunker was the idea of shaper Mike Munie.)"

http://www.gobelle.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_3_51/ai_59554915#continue

[Marty Bonnar]

Here's the little beauty...



Architorture or INNOVATION?

FBD.

[Mitch Hantman]

I haven't been to Aberdeen in years, but #8 had an island bunker when it was first built.  Definitely Architorture!

[Steve Pozaric]

Here's the little beauty...

Architorture or INNOVATION?

FBD.

Martin:

Thanks for posting the picture.

[Ryan DeMay]

The fourteenth at Avalon Lakes (Pete Dye/Tim Liddy) in Warren, OH has island bunkers that were in play for a short time, but are now treated as a lateral water hazard.

[PThomas]

could you get to those bunkers without walking through a foot or more of water?  if not , why put them there ?

and that Player hole:  yeesh!  how DUMB!

and kudos to Tom ("most frightening and downright stupid shot") and Rick ("canoe as a useful piece of golf equipment)
for two quotes for the All-time GCA quotebook (the keeping of which is not a bad idea...I might have to start doing that!)

[Ryan DeMay]

During the short time they were in use, we connected them with 18 inch wide wooden bridges.  Perhaps if Tim Liddy sees this post he could shed some light on the island bunkers at ALGC.

[Mike_Cirba]

I don't care if that is Pete Dye and Tim Liddy.

That's fawful!  

[Patrick_Mucci]

How are they maintained ?

How do they prevent weeds and plants from growing in them.

Cary,

Wouldn't the bunkers have to be above the level of the water ?

And, how would you maintain them ?

Wouldn't they be like bathtubs and fill with water when it rains ?

[cary lichtenstein]

Pat

Don't know the answers, but if connected with a sliver of land like a question mark shape, they would be accessible and maintainable and Fun.

[Dave_Miller]

We have Island greens, how come no ever does any island bunkers?

Take number 17 at TPC for example, what if there were 2 island bunkers, one in front and one in back, separated by about 3 feet of water and little walk ways to get to them.

What a neat shot, miss the green and now you have to blast it over the water onto the green or redrop into the bunker. What fun!!

Cary:
That's an evil thought.  You could have someone stuck in those bunkers for eternity
Dave

[cary lichtenstein]

Dave

I can think of a few guys I'd like to stick in there forever

Cary

[Tim Liddy]

Architects for Avalon Lakes are COMPLETELY innocent.  They were built as wetland areas.  I had not idea someone would put bunkers in them. Very bad.

[TEPaul]

Mark Fine said of Stone Harbor;

"I heard Tom Paul wants to restore that course    Is that true Tom?"


Mark:

You're damn right I do. The reason is I believe in what I call the "spectrum" of golf course architecture, and the wider it is, the better GCA is for it, in my opinion.

When a golf course garners some true superlatives that's really saying something about it and it should be completely preserved or restored.

You saw what an excellent current architect, Tom Doak, said about the separated island bunkers of the old "Jaws" 7th hole at SH----he said his bunker shot from one of those bunkers was the STUPIDEST shot he has ever encountered on a golf course.

That's a superlative, without question, and if the separated island bunkers on "Jaws" #7 weren't preserved, which they weren't, they should be restored immediately to all their superlative glory.

I will say two things about SH's "Jaws" #7 the way it was originally with those two separated island bunkers.

The first thing is the reason those bunkers were redesigned to be attached to the green is because so many golf balls were going into the water between those bunkers and the green the water was about to be totally displaced by golf balls. Obviously that was a pracitical problem they could've resolved some other way.

And second, there's the aesthetic problem. Originally that hole was ultra scary looking with those huge shark teeth looking things on the inside of those island bunkers but now that the bunkers are attached to the green that hole just looks like some pathetic old shark who forgot to put his scary looking false teeth back in.

The idiots also took out the Norse Sword, the State of New Jersey bunker and the volupuous looking totally stacked mermaid bunker.

All of it should be restored to its original "STUPIDEST" glory.

There is absolutely no reason under the sun they should've tried to make a course or its architecture which was that far out at the end of the spectrum into a normal course or one that looks even remotely normal.













Stone Harbor should be restored to it's original Muirhead psychodelic symbolism glory.

[Mike_Cirba]

Architects for Avalon Lakes are COMPLETELY innocent.  They were built as wetland areas.  I had not idea someone would put bunkers in them. Very bad.

Tim,

C'mon, are you sure Pete didn't stick those in?

Seriously, I can only imagine that it must be frustrating to see one's creation morph in such an unexpected and..umm..unorthodox direction.