[Larry_Keltto]

Tom D. gives his guys a lot of credit, and they deserve it. Last summer at Ballyneal I saw Kye Goalby using a dozer (don't know which kind, but it looked large to me) in scraping/creating a bunker. His precision with such a large tool was amazing.

[ed_getka]

Tom,
   Who was Jim Urbina working with before you guys got together?
    What is the coring out of greens you refer to?

What are the lawn mowing size things that have a blade on them called? I've seen Hanse and DeVries use them on greens.

[Joe Hancock]

Ed,

You're thinking of the Toro SandPro. It's designed for bunker maintenance, but is very handy for construction.

Joe

[James Bennett]

I generally have something to say on most any thread (or I think I do) but ........ I don't have a dollop of advice to add because I know nothing whatsoever .......

So, I have nothing at all to offer ..............

Post of the year?  

My apologies Tom Paul for the selective editing.  Too good an opportunity to miss.

James B

[Tom_Doak]

Pete:  Jim Urbina started with Perry Dye on the TPC at Plum Creek, about four months before I got back from the UK and started work there.  At that point and the next summer at Riverdale Dunes, he was working summers only and teaching high school the rest of the year.

He worked for the Dyes several more years while I was getting my start as a designer, before he came to work for me.

"Coring out" greens just refers to making a "green well" in which to put the gravel and sand mix for a USGA green.  Some designers build the green at finish grade and then core out the area of the green and fill it with mix; we just shape the outside of the green at finish grade and the floor at subgrade, which is how I learned to do it for the Dyes.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Ed,
  To go off a little of what Joe was saying, when I worked at Friar's Head, C&C used a Smithco, similar to a Sandpro. Our Smithco had a blade in between the tires with a handle that we would be able to float out lows and hogh on greens. We also used it arounf fairway head after we capped them. It does a great job of tying everything together and you can get quite detailed with it also. Who would have known that we'd would rebuild our range tees using the same machine this past summer!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Gary_Mahanay]

Tom Doak,

You said that Jim Urbina wants to do a whole course with trackhoes?  Isn't that machine mainly for digging deep trenches and, with big buckects attached, used for digging and dumping in large end-dumps for hauling?  How could you do any fine or rough grading with this machine?  No dozer work at all?

Gary

[George_Bahto]

gotta confess - made an ass out of myself one day ...

When we were building Stonebridge I kept wanting to get on that D4 CAT. I kept eyeing that thing for months and when we were on the last hole I convinced them to let me give it a whirl.

Well I mucked around in the area left of the last hole we were working on (the #1 hole of the course) where the houses would be, scraping along and generally messing up the are pretty good while the rest were laughing their asses off.

They had given me nothing but the few basic instructions but pretty soon I got the hang of it a bit.

After about 20 minutes I got a little brazen and dropped down one of those approaches into a semi finished bunker to show them how a “dry-cleaner” might clean the bunker floor up - and even get a little nuance in that I wanted.

Well you guessed - no belt - no helmet - and I whacked my forehead in front of me pretty hard ..... course this explains my overall condition, I suppose.

They laughed more cause I had busting their b - - - s for the past few months over all the minor details I wanted done.

Three bunkers were left on that hole and they weren’t staked out (obviously I knew where I wanted them) so, still bleeding a bit, I “drove” this thingie over to the area, carved out the basics of the three bunker just the way I wanted them, drove back to where they were, jumped down, jumped into my car and driving off yelled at them: “Ok guys finish it up - I’ll see you tomorrow”        

It was a very cool day - I mean I thought I was hot-stuff.    A fun hour or so.

[Ron Farris]

My first experience on a dozer was at Long Cove.  Pete Dye asked me to move a D6 from hole #2 to #15 so that P.B could do his magic.  I had never been on a dozer before and Pete crawled up in the cab and showed me how to start, stop, turn right, turn left.  About the only shaping that I did at Long Cove was with a shovel in the bunkers and a sand pro on couple of greens.  

I now prefer to shape with a D5 without a cab for the reasons stated by Tom D.  

At Austin CC Pete requested some changes to hole#2.  They hadn't been made yet and the sod trucks were coming.  So beening an eager college graduate I decided to do some dozer work after regular hours.  

My recommendation for dozer-heads is to be aware of what is behind you when operating machines.  Backing up on hole #2 I hit a half hidden tree stump.  It caused the dozer to slowly flip on its side.  I was not wearing a seat belt and I stepped out of the dozer as it went to its side. I am lucky to be here today.  I like doing dozer work but not hogging or bulk moving.
It has been a while since I was last on a dozer and Kye Goalby can attest.  Controls are different on dfferent machines.  While working in Japan I tried to operate a track-hoe and the controls were opposite what I had run state-side.  I nearly killed 3 engineers who were assigned to what a expert do some shaping.

Best of Luck and keep the blade full.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jim Urbina has a great story about when he first got into the business working for Pete. I'll try to repeat it here, hoping Jim won't mind, as well as I hope that I don't screw some of it up.

Jim is just out of college, needs a job and lands one working on TPC of Plum Creek for the Dye's. Of course being the first time he's ever even been on a project, they have him digging and doing hard labor. Jim said he was complaining all day, every day that if his mom had found out he was digging ditches instead of going out into the real world to find a job more accustomed to the studies she paid for (by putting him through college) that she would have him by his neck.

Somehow Pete overheard all of this and pointed to Jim to get on a dozer and move this huge pile or small hill of dirt from one spot to the other. It took him about two days, most of it figuring out how to run a Dozer and when was done, all proud of the assignment he completed, Pete tells him to move the mound back to the same exact spot!

Jim said he never got off of a dozer after that! And yes, he had to go explain to his mom that he was now into building golf courses for a living!

[Brendan Dolan]

This past summer while interning, I got to hop on a bulldozer for a couple of days, when Rod Whitman was out of town.  My boss had me push out piles of dirt for a large tee that we had to build up.  At first it was a real struggle to stay ahead of the dump trucks  as well as trying to keep the top from being wavy, but as I got better I tried to blend some of the sides in and make the tee look more natural.  After a few days Rod returned, and in an hour or so he had the pile of dirt that I had pushed out looking as if it had been created by glacier.  Rod and the other shaper, Daniel were true artists.

Brendan

[RJ_Daley]

I heard one that might be useful down there in that Texas scrub country.  The story goes that rugged Jack Drella was working at Bayside with the Bunkerhill boys when he stopped for a while.  He had parked his machine at the side of where he was scraping in some scrub brush.  He jumped down off the track into the brush and was suprized a rattler which bit him.  They say that Jack was so tough, the snake slithered off in the weeds and died while Jack got back up and went to work.

So, don't be jumping off into the unknown.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Jason,
Thanks for the goggle suggestions.
I picked up a pair on the way to the site last week...
Sure were a lot of bikers at the store.  

Tony,
Thank you for the Bandana suggestion.
As for maint. I can only check the oil and fill the tank so far, I'll work on the grease gun.

Mike,
It is snake season, and I haven't seen many.  I hope I don't, but I'll be looking thanks to you.

Ed,
The photos of the work are early yet.  Only a few total days so far - I'll post some maybe.  This is all my own tinkering, until we select someone to dig the lake...  Thank you for your interest.

Ian,
Thank you.  That is my plan, I'm just waiting for the "shaper".  I must say I am pleased with my abilities so far.

Tom Paul - the seatbelt is old - I tried - I like standing up to see how much dirt I'm pushing sometimes - for the longer hauls - I'd rather not be wasting my time.  I guess if I have to look...

Tom Doak - How do you contour fairways with a trackhoe?  I'm picturing Pacific Dunes in particular.

Ron - "keep the blade full"  I like that.  Thanks.


Is anyone more of a walking in expert - using the tracks - or are you mostly blade guys?

[David Druzisky]

RJ -  I too have some familiarity with Valley Fever - unfortunately.  My father is a golf course superintedent (actually now a golf project mgr.).  Back in 1978 he was at a club in CA and they did an irrigation project.  He came down with the bad cough, weak etc. thing really bad.  He went into the hospital and did not come out for 3 months. almost died.  Apparently he had one of the oddest cases they had ever seen.  I was only a kid then and we did not get to see him for about 2 of those months.

There are now some very easy tests they have to see if you have had it or do and some better treatments.  Back then they used a process similar to chemotherapy to kill off the fungus.  Nasty.  CA and AZ - look out.  You may get it and it may not be any worse than a small cold and then never know.  Once you get over it you have the anti-bodies and wont get it again.

DbD

[Ron Farris]

Mike, there are some in the industry that feel tracking in is the only way to build.  Back-blading is considered a no-no or a sign of a novice.  If you track  along the slope verses up and down more erosion will occur.  Theory is that up and down ill catch more water during grow-in on unirrigated areas and holds seed in place.  Bottom line is what it looks like come opening day!

[Tony Ristola]

Gary M:

I've done a project with track-hoes only.

OK, I did use a bulldozer to shape the entrance to a green and replace some topsoil in a couple areas.

We didn't grade a fairway, built tees, greens and bunkers only.
The benefit of the track-hoes is they don't run back and forth so much; compacting the soils. They can work in tight areas.

They're also better for building bunkers. If your goal is to achieve the retro look of some of the Golden Age styled bunkering, hoes can do it, especially the smaller stuff, easier than bulldozers.

I look at the bunkers from the the Kingston Heath thread http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=21505 (beautiful) and the pointed outlines of some of the bunkers (and the groupings of bunkers); you could create them with a dozer, but they're easier to achieve with track-hoes.  That dozer blade is 3 yards wide, the bucket a yard or so, swivels in 6 directions, and as the operator is sculpting the machine is just there, stationary, making noise. Another benefit is the operator is looking clearly at the work he's sculpting instead of sitting high up in a cab driving over it.
Dozers too often make forms too round, smooth; polished.

[James Bennett]

Tony Ristola

do you mean building bunkers like this with these sorts of machines?  This is my little club - Blackwood in Adelaide, but the operator was Nathan Eager of Mike Clayton Golf Design - Melbourne sandbelt specialists!  At my club, they got to work in clay though . They have done it before.



James B

[Tony Ristola]

James,
Aye, that's it. Excavator, Knuckle Bucket, Track Hoe.

We used 14 and 21 ton machines; two of each, and then a 5t ton to formalize/scrape-out the final ragged-edge contours of the bunkers after they were grown in.

[James Bennett]

Tony

they (well, Nathan) use three different sized buckets to do the work.  Absolutley my first exposure to any such work.  And then they incorporated hand work to get the final shape of the bunker internals, and the bunker extrenals.

Really a work of art.

This team are now working on Grange West in Adelaide,where the 2008 Eisenhower Cup is being played.  Two bigger track-hoes in use, and rebuilding all greens (18) over less than two years because of local turf issues, plus bunkers, plus vegetation issues.  It is in sand though (not clay).

James B

[James Bennett]

I had a request from a GCA'er for some finished bunker photos of Blackwood's first hole project, so here they go.  Clayton Golf design (Mike Cocking Design Associate, Nathan Eager key shaper) did the work in a couple of weeks, with help from local staff doing drainage, sodding and spoil removal.

Remember, this is very heavy clay, with rainfall in the winter exceeding 150mm a month (6 inches) with cool wintertemperatures (perhaps maximum of about 12 degrees (55 F) and minimum of about 5 (40 F).  Summers have droughts for months, with warm to hot temperatures.

The excavation photo was shown above (see earlier post) using a tracked bucket excavator.  The next three photos have been shown before - comprising the hole before the work started, the hole after some minor trees were cleared, and the hole after the bunker was built.  The next post will show the construction progress, and a final post the finished bunkers (thre eof them).  Hope some of you enjoy the transformation.  The hole finally opens tomorrow after a long gestation.  The hole is a significant improvement on what was there before, and will be enjoyed for what it is.


Part I

Before


Minor Trees removed


Bunkers completed


James B

[James Bennett]

Part !!

Excavated Fairway bunker


Drained approach bunker


Drains connected for approach bunker


Approach bunker geo-tech clothed, and drained


The work on an existing hole to undertake such works should not be underestimated.  Working with existing drainage lines, irrigation lines, tees and greens complexes is very difficult and complex.  Such works end up comprising a lot of surprises and challenges.  Don't under-estimate what is involved, nor devalue the significant improvement that can occur through such work.

James B

[James Bennett]

Part III - hte 'finished' bunkers

The faces have been hydroseeded to stabilise the new sand.  Over time, it will be interesting to see what appaearance they take - grassy or clean edge.  Hopefully, our club will take the advice of the architects, whatever that is.

Fairway bunker


approach bunker


greenside bunker


thanks Mike, Mike and Nathan, and to Peter H and his course staff.  It will be a project I will remember for a long time with affection.

James B

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