Which course has the greatest dignity?

« **on:** March 30, 2006, 12:50:23 PM »

Silly question, you say.

It is prompted by a recent conversation I had with a musician friend when he described a particular piece by Thomas Tallis as being the piece which would, in his opinion, give the human race the greatest dignity if it were the only piece of western classical music to survive some awful catastrophe.

So when the asteroid is hurtling towards earth and even the NASA scientists can't figure out a way to stop it crashing into the planet, you have one skyrocket left. You can let it off to divert the asteroid's path away from one particular golf course which will be the only one to survive the collision. Which course?

« **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2006, 12:56:15 PM »

Interestingly, my first thought didn't go directly to St. Andrews, where it probably should have. Just trying to use protective missiles for US property, I guess. A certain course in Georgia immediately popped into my head, maybe it's the tourney there next week....but after reflection that's not my choice, either.

Lots of good choices, and I haven't been to any of them...but I'm staying PUBLIC, so I'll pick Pebble. If private, I guess it's CPC or National.

« **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2006, 01:24:58 PM »

Trump National of course.

Just imagine the check that Donald would send me after saving the world and keeping his waterfalls intact.

On a more serious note I would also be payin the dues and go for TOC.

« **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2006, 01:40:41 PM »

The operative word is dignity.

1. Formal, stately or grave-bearing.
2. The state or quality of being worthy of honour.
3. Relative importance, rank.
4. Sense of self-importance.
5. High rank, esp in the government or the church.
6. A person of high rank or such persons collectively.

Plenty of graves at St Andrews....

« **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2006, 01:43:44 PM »

I think Oakmont fits the bill.

It is a historical landmark
The greens are legendary
It has always been a very stern test
It has rich tournament history
The Fownes family is important to the history of GCA
It is highly ranked
It just seems to be the type of place that knows it's the shit so it doesn't have to promote itself as such.

« **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2006, 01:48:28 PM »

Michael, I like your reply.

« **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2006, 06:19:22 PM »

Mark,

West Sussex.

It is drop-dead beautiful.
They are friendly and humble, but still don't sell themselves short.
Fantastically interesting variety of holes.
A lovely part of the country.

« **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2006, 06:31:01 PM »

Quote from: Mark_Rowlinson on March 30, 2006, 12:50:23 PM

Silly question, you say.

It is prompted by a recent conversation I had with a musician friend when he described a particular piece by Thomas Tallis as being the piece which would, in his opinion, give the human race the greatest dignity if it were the only piece of western classical music to survive some awful catastrophe.

Tallis? Man, I had to google him just to find out who he was. I guess a classically trained singer would know him, but this marginal violinist never heard of him. And as a marginal violinist, I'd have to go with one of the great violin concertos, like the famous ones by Tchaikovsky or Mendelssohn, or maybe a slightly lesser known one like something by Vivaldi, or maybe even my personal favorite by Saint Saens.

Thanks, Michael, for saying Oakmont so I could suggest another!

I'd have to choose a club by the sea. Out of the few I've seen, I might choose Newport. It just reeks of class.

« **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2006, 06:41:24 PM »

Quote from: Mark Ferguson on March 30, 2006, 06:19:22 PM

Mark,

West Sussex.

It is drop-dead beautiful.
They are friendly and humble, but still don't sell themselves short.
Fantastically interesting variety of holes.
A lovely part of the country.

Mark

A fairly well known writer from a bygone age once wrote the following about Pulborough:

"I think if I had to choose on example to demonstrate the best sort of British inland course, to explain what it was trying to do to provide entertainment, and why it had to be so different from a links, to some men from Mars or a group of intelligent Americans, I think I would pick Pulborough, much as I love Woking, Liphook, St. George's Hill and a dozen others."

Presumably he didn't think there were any intelligent Aussies! Though he does mention men from Mars.

Ciao

Sean

« **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:21:25 PM »

Mark, I have to go with Sunningdale. The golf is some of the best in the world. The clubhouse is elegant and understated, unlike Wentworth. The pro shop leaves a little something to be desired but the Tree in front of the clubhouse more than makes up for it.

« **Reply #10 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:22:56 PM »

By the way. Which piece of music by Tallis? The canon?

« **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:24:08 PM »

The Country Club......

« **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2006, 11:56:34 PM »

I'd have to go with TOC. If the world is being destroyed, hopefully all records of all other courses will be destroyed with it. With TOC as the blueprint for how golf courses should be, when golf is reborn it would hopefully be missing stuff like carts and G.U.R.

Hopefully a copy of the rules from the 1700s would come with it, not the 2006 version!

« **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:22:35 AM »

Mark,

If you are using a composer from the 16th century as a reference, then only 'The Old Course' could fit the bill.

« **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2006, 02:10:10 AM »

The greatest dignity?
Hmmmm?
Pebble Beach.

Now, if there had to be something that was left behind to discover, to start anew for the next generation of mutated protoplasm, then it should be something with a lot of unconventional stuff going on. It should be short; about 5,800 yards so it doesn't take tons of space and labor (by then the balls will be petrified, and they'll figure they didn't go too far) and create accordingly until their Haskell Rascal starts a new projectile arms race.

From there the new species can take a century or two before their courses get stetched out like Gumbi and sterlized by masses wanting their courses to be like those on the burgeoning Mutant McGolf Tour; all about mathematics, standardization and over the top maintenance.

« **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2006, 02:18:39 AM »

For golf courses I have no opinion. For music, probably Beethoven's Overture to Egmont or Mozart's 40th Symphony.

George Pazin -- how do you like the Sibelius, Prokofiev and Brahms' concertos? My personal favorites.

« **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2006, 08:52:27 AM »

The Tallis, by the way, is the 40-part motet, Spem in alium, which translates as I have never put my hope in any other but you. It is one of the great glories of the English golden age, dating from around 1570.

For anyone with an interest in this sort of music Chapelle du Roi (directed by Alistair Dixon) have released a boxed set of 10CDs of the complete works of Tallis on Signum Records SIGCD060 www.signumrecords.com It is ravishing singing - you couldn't imagine its being performed better.

« **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:25:27 AM »

The parallels between music and gca are striking. At a number of levels.

- the relationship between the score (routing/drawings) and performance (playing/shot values).

- the ebb and flow of great music is similar to the ebb and flow of great designs. There are themes, development, dissonance, climax, resolution - all apply to both music and good golf courses.

- historical issues such as authentic performance, using orignal tempii and other markings are not unlike gca issues relating to restoration, the suitability of high tech golf to historic courses.

I could go on.

Bob

This weekend I am doing somethig I have always wanted to do. I am borrowing my son's ipod and playing golf while listening to Brahm's Second Piano Concerto and Mozart's 41st. I'll check back with the results.

« **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:34:39 AM »

Bob - Arias in Bach St John Passion in York Minster tomorrow night and in Manchester Cathedral on Sunday. Purcell Indian Queen in Queen Elizabeth Hall, London on Thursday. Christus in Bach St John Passion at Liverpool Cathedral the following Saturday. Christus in Bach St Matthew Passion at King's Cambridge on the Wednesday. Bass solos in Stainer's Crucifixion Good Friday, Coventry Cathedral. No time to play golf.

Actually my son played 2 holes at Wilmslow today - he couldn't face more it was in such bad condition and if Wilmslow's in bad condition the other local courses will be dreadful.

« **Reply #19 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:36:00 AM »

Mark -

Are the Tallis Scholars still around?

Bob

« **Reply #20 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:43:34 AM »

Yes, they are. They are still making records, too, as they have their own label. http://www.thetallisscholars.co.uk/

« **Reply #21 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:51:05 AM »

My god, man. You are busy.

I very much wish I could be there to hear some of your performances.

Bob

« **Reply #22 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:54:51 AM »

Bob, I'll try singing a bit louder than usual. Open your windows and prick up your ears!

« **Reply #23 on:** March 31, 2006, 10:46:36 PM »

Mark, As you, of course know, Thomas Tallis had a tough lot writing for both Roman Catholics and Anglicans depending on the monarch. It is fascinating how politics controls so much. I have listened to portions of the piece in question and indeed it is elegant.
It elevates humankind much the same way Sunningdale does.

« **Reply #24 on:** April 01, 2006, 03:31:50 AM »

Tom, It takes a cleric to bring this thread back to golf! See you soon. Mark.

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