[Matt MacIver]

Am planning a long weekend trip to Santa Fe in mid- Sept and will probably play 2 rounds.  Black Mesa gets one slot, looking for opinions on the other.  Paa Ko Ridge (hours' drive) and Las Campanas (private, Nicklaus) have been mentioned.  Others?  Or go for two rounds at BM?  

Also, lodging (near the Plaza) and/or dining tips would be appreciated.  Thanks.  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Twin Warriors and Sandia(www.sandiagolf) are other possibles as well as UNM Chamionship Course in ABQ.

I'm disappointed that my return trip to NM won't happen this year.

[Matt_Ward]

Matt M:

There is no real reason to play JUST ONE round at Black Mesa. It merits repeat play -- it is without question a jewel and one of the USA's best modern courses -- how it doesn't crack the top 20 modern is truly baffling.

If you need a place to stay I would recommend the Hotel Santa Fe -- located just off the square and provides ready access to whatever you seek when in town.

La Fonda is another alternative as well -- also just off the square.

If you should opt to play another place I would recommend taking the Turquoise Trail (instead of I-25) and head via the backway to Paa-Ko Ridge and sample the 27 holes of golf there.

You might want to check out the Santa Fe calendar for Indian Market because it's an annual event that really highlights the impact that Native Americans have made.

To get the hotels I just mentioned it's best to get in early -- they do have times when they are sold out.

[A_Clay_Man]

The Inn of The Anasazzi has been especially good to Black Mesa, and in-turn to their guests, for reccomending such a fine lay-out. It's a bit high-end but in comparison to the rest of the world, might appear in-expensive.
The group back in ought three' had an amazing meal at the Pink Adobe.
Also, Paa-Ko-Ridge is only 45 minutes down the trail from dwntwn Santa Fe, as Matt suggested.
The Hyatt at Twin Warriors appears world class for half price.

[JeffTodd]

Here is a relevant article in the current T&L Golf:

http://www.travelandleisure.com/tlgolf/articles/golf-the-new-greens-of-new-mexico

[Matt MacIver]

Many thanks for the advice, and the timely T&L article -- looks like I'm going at the right time.  

[Jay Flemma]

Black Mesa AND paako ridge stand head and shouldrs above all other public courses in NM.

[A_Clay_Man]

Jay, Pinon Hills does belong in the rarified air, at least from a design perspective, played in the correct order, of course.

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

Have the folks at Pinon Hills opted to go with less H20 on the entire layout ?

I love the course -- in the proper sequence but the overwatering clearly impacts upon what Ken Dye envisioned.

I've got my fingers crossed.

[A_Clay_Man]

Matt, There's no question they have fixed most (if not all) of the irrigation problems, that was a primary cause for the apparent over-watering. The affects were immediately noticable on the high spots around the greens, where bounces are now much more prevalent. The city powers havn't altered their view of what they want, so, shoulder season is probably still the best time to experience optimal conditions.  

[Jim Sweeney]

Matt:

Santa Fe built a muni about ten years ago called the Marty Sanchez Links. I was really impressed when I played it about eight years ago, when it was still fairly new. So I won't say anything about conditioning, but if you don't have an hour (plus) to drive to Paa Ko, you might try it.

Also, Cochiti Lake GC, a RTJ jr. design, very fun  to play in a remote setting, is a shorter drive. RTJ Jr. recently did a renovation of his own design, adding length and correcting some maintenance issues, and I'm told (I haven't been there since) that it is very good.

Maybe Adam C. could add his comments about these two courses.

[cary lichtenstein]

Black Mesa twice, then Paa Ko Ridge 27 holes...nothing else

[A_Clay_Man]

Cochitti Lakes while remote with plenty of skyline shot opportunities, was softened with the recent re-do. Since I wasn't there before, I'm told the cross carry baranca's have been removed. There's some cool stuff, and for a gca geek, I think it's worth the drive once. But not an imperative.

While Marty Sanchez is solid considering what the marching orders were. I think "the great 28" is much more informative gca wise, and highlights more of the creative mind that is Baxter Spann.

If you have any interest in Red Lawrence, his south course is not to be missed, even if it was built on a sheit site.

[Matt_Ward]

Jim S:

Thanks for the mention of Marty Sanchez -- but I have played it -- including the great 28 which Adam weighed in on already.

Gents:

I have to return to Cochiti but frankly I was very underwhelmed when I played the course one time about 8 years ago. The overall conditioning was suspect and the architectural elements were really overstated. How the course finished in the top 25 among public courses by Digest a number of years ago baffles me.

Black Mesa and Paa-Ko Ridge are the mainstays in the Land of Enchantment. Frankly, Black Mesa is simply that good of a layout for anyone not to play multiple rounds when there.

Adam:

There was no "apparentl" over-watering when I was there. It was most certainly present. The course played way too slow and even though you admitted to me that there had been improvements from my initial visit several years before -- the powers-that-be need to jettison the preposterous idea that extra H20 is needed for the classic Ken Dye layout.

Pinon Hills unfortunately is managed by people who don't understand golf. The same could be said for Bethpage Black for a number of years.

[A_Clay_Man]

Matt, I used apparent because in the height of the sogginess I asked a question of the Men's club board, as we were sitting around waiting for the meeting to begin, if they felt that our course was over-watered. The first words out of the one digest panelist's mouth was "I'd vote against that".
Understand, this was the beggining of the end for me. My apolitical ass couldn't conceive of that response, to a point brought up for discussion.

Another reason Pinon Hills is in great shape right now, they are one year into the new equiptment. While the mow heights are not as low as I'd like, but they are more reasonable than just two short years ago.

Also, Matt, when harping on a this subject, It's my opinion, that you really do need to consider the fact that this is high desert. Not an easy place to do busine$$, or grow anything, with less water. Or, for the Super's job security.

I agree there was a point where it does get ridiculous, at certain times, but there are plenty of other times when the course is not soaked.

The subtle differences at Pinon are noticable to me. Alan & Andrew have done a great job.

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

Please, I don't need to be reminded of where New Mexico is. The idea that people have to provide some added benefit of the doubt because of the high desert is simply an excuse that doesn't need to be given or weighed IMHO.

I've been to the state more than enough times to surmise that certain courses are simply way over-watered. UNM / Championship is literally soggy given the ignorance of the folks running the show there. I would love to play the famed Red Lawrence just ONCE when the turf was indeed firm.

Too often people who overwater are more interested in the appearance of the course rather than accentuating the characteristics imbued into the layout by the architect. I'm not expecting pavement for turf conditions but when people are taking veal cutlet size divots in such a dry climate you have major issues of understanding what is happening.

Adam -- it seems you have abadoned your rebel outlook at Pinon and become a conformist. How sad indeed. Pinon Hills was moist when I was present during my last visit -- it may have been less moist compared to what you are used to at the facility but all the same the idea of having relatively dry turf still seems to be a foreign concept there. I look forward to my next visit because without question the overall layout by Ken Dye is indeed well done and worthy of a visit -- even if the nines as constituted now are backward.

The lone NM course I can say that thoroughly understands the interplay between moisture, turf and fundamental design is Black Mesa. Anytime I have played Black Mesa it is clear superintendent Pat Brockwell completely understands how the course needs to play and it shows time after time after time.

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

Just for my info purposes -- have you played Sandia thus far and if so what are your comments ?

Thanks ...

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